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[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion

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Sophomoric comment of the day:

Jeyne is so freaking hot. I would let her amputate my foot for a date.

ETA: "My bastard at the Dreadfort."

Fuck. Yes.

Jeyne is beautiful. Ygritte is lovely. And Tonks was naked. :laugh:

Great episode, I really enjoyed it. The opening Winterfell scene was intense and well-done. I liked Ser Rodrik's death here, it combined several elements from the book. Poor Bran, his screaming was heartbreaking. The scene that almost got to me though was Ser Rodrik telling him that he was going to see his father.

As a book reader, I found the riot scene (especially Sansa's near rape) to be pretty intense, as was Arya nearly being discovered during the meeting with Littlefinger. Arya and Tywin remains gold and I'm glad they found a reason why Arya has to use her second kill. I think she was going to take Tywin out, despite "bonding" with him.

Rose Leslie is fantastic as Ygritte.

The Bastard of Bolton lives!

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Jon and Ygritte: *sigh* I just hated almost all of their time together in the books. And now he looks even worse.

I didn't like them in the books, but something about TV-Ygritte is endearing. Maybe I'll start to dislike her healthily after the 10th "You know nothing, Jon Snow," but I right now I like this Ygritte a lot. Right now she's spirited without being obnoxious, although maybe the obnoxious part will come out soon.

I love that the TV show isn't shying away from portraying Dany as she really is - her true nature is camouflaged pretty well until ASOS. Pretty shocked at seeing her khalasar dead and the dragons stolen, but I like this and I wish something like that had happened in the books, because it in hindsight it seems really odd that nobody tried it.

I'm still lukewarm on Talisa - although her being a noblewoman makes this whole thing slightly more plausible. I loved the scenes between Robb and Catelyn so much, they're such a great pair on screen.

The taking of Winterfell broke my heart, on the other hand, just as I knew it would. And when the Bolton betrayal was foreshadowed...another terrible moment.

Edited by A Time for Wolves

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I enjoyed this episode a lot. The Winterfell scenes were great. Also very happy to hear that Ramsey hasn't entirely been cut.

I'm just waiting on the fan rage for the changes, particularly Dany's dragons being stolen. I can't wait to read the bitching for a whole week.

I was thinking the same thing. The analysis from this site has this gem:

The stolen dragons: Completely new, the consequences of which are presently rather unfathomable in terms of the show, but which does strike a blow at the fidelity of the series with the novels. Qarth has now radically departed from the narrative in the novel.

LOL

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Where have all the horses gone? I understand budget cuts but really no horses?

The horse-budget is always a problem. Remember Monty Python and the Holy Grail’s coconuts. And how last season they just ran out of horsey money, so Robert had to go boar hunting on foot with like nobody with him. On the other hand, Peter Jackson seemed to have horseys coming out of his rear.

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I definitely agree with this. I can't say I dislike this season because it has been amazing at times but I feel that they are just diverging from the books way too far this season compared to last season. I hope they pull it back a little closer as we get further in the season but I really doubt it will!

Seriously, there have been very few changes of any importance at all. Yes, I will admit the dragon-theft is going a bit far afield, but even that doesn't stray all that far from the path and will likely give Dany even more reason to torch the HOTU. So I'm content to wait and see where that goes.

But for everything else, hardly any changes at all. I'm absolutely throwing out any concerns like subbing Bronn for Bywater or complaints about minor character A dying instead of minor character B. They're not even worth considering.

For the other storylines tonight:

1. The taking of Winterfell was almost exactly from the books. And Osha escapes with Bran and Rickon, just like from the books. Rodrik instead of the hound master? Irrelevant. Osha doing Theon instead of some other minor character? Irrelevant.

2. Jon captures Ygritte and lets her go. Pretty much exactly the same and it will still lead to Jon killing Qhorin to "prove" he "betrayed" the Night's Watch.

3. The Harrenhall scenes are pretty much true to the spirit of the book and don't go anywhere it can be claimed to be such a big departure that the storyline from the books cannot be followed.

4. The King's Landing scenes, especially the riot, were exactly from the books with changes that could only annoy the nitpickiest of book purists (Sansa was rescued from her horse not from three rapists! GRR!!!)

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I don't understand the complaints about Dany. GRRM made her seem WAY WAY more petulent, nieve, and incompetant in the book(s). In some ways I think the show is showing it better than George was where it seemed so heavy handed "But I am just a young girl." That Merchant scene was a nice merge of the litany of Dany is Nieve scenes.

Also put me in the XXD is somehow involved with the kidnapping scene. His reaction was very much delayed, plus he was just talking about his willingness to do anything to get what he wants. In retrospect the scene is set up well b/c you wonder if it was Warlocks, XXD, Jorah, or Doreah who set it up

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I am so very relieved to hear a Ramsay mention. I wondered too how Roose would have known about Roderick's death. This Dagmer = Ramsay theory is intriguing, it solves the problem of the Winterfell storylne with Reek being absent. Dagmer is acting very Iagoish talking Theon into being even more of a douche. If Dagmer is the one to suggest executing Bran and Rickon, I will be very on board with this theory. It would be such a fun twist that would shock book readers too.

Is anyone else wondering when Sansa is meeting Dontos in the godswood? IIRC she had already started doing this a long time ago in the book. Maybe it won't be until next season?

Hopefully these theories about Olenna being cut are wrong. She is too great to be denied!

I will be pissed if Alfie Allen and Maisie Williams don't get award noms for this season. They are so fantastic.

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Great episode...

I'm really sad that Jojen isn't in, and I don't understand the Jojen haters. He was a mystical child with true honor, a product of a Stark-loyal father that Eddard valued greatly. That could have been a super interesting part to cast, especially for Book/Season 3.

Also, in reading the book, for a little while you're kinda left believing Bran and Rickon are actually murdered and displayed. That heart sink seems officially removed.

Edited by Titus Pullo

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Also put me in the XXD is somehow involved with the kidnapping scene. His reaction was very much delayed, plus he was just talking about his willingness to do anything to get what he wants.

Fully agree with this.

When I first saw that scene, with him giving his "I have done dishonorable things" speech, and then opening the door to the bloodbath in the courtyard, I thought it was totally him. I took it as a "This is what I have done to make you give me what I want" display, and that he purposely set it up as a display of his power and just how far he is willing to take it.

It wasn't until Dany freaked and he yelled to "call the guards" or whatever that I realized that it wasn't his doing.

Edited by AnikaUnderfoot

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Great episode...

I agree.

I'm really sad that Jojen isn't in, and I don't understand the Jojen haters. He was a mystical child with true honor, a product of a Stark-loyal father that Eddard valued greatly. That could have been a super interesting part to cast, especially for Book/Season 3.

I hate prophet characters. Point blank, no matter what.

Also, in reading the book, for a little while you're kinda left believing Bran and Rickon are actually murdered and displayed. That heart sink seems officially removed

??? In the book, the fake murder doesn't occur until after Theon fails to catch Bran and Rickon. Which hasn't happened yet.

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Where have all the horses gone? I understand budget cuts but really no horses?

A riot with horses would surely have been extremely dangerous, as horses are animals and would have panicked since they would not have known that it was all an act.

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I must admit I was a bit disappointed with the dragon-theft scene. The tower at the end was clearly intended to be the house of the undying, but I've always imagined the house of the undying to be a one-storey ranch-style affair, probably with a stucco exterior. I mean, it isn't called the tower of the undying, is it?

So they turned the house of the undying into the tower of the undying which got me thinking -- what else have they changed in this episode?

Did you notice how Littlefinger kept staring at Arya. I don't remember him being into little girls in the books but suddenly that's his thing in the show? It's really unlike him, IMO, but there you go.

And then the beheading scene. It was reminiscent of the botched beheading of Mary Queen of Scots or the opening execution in Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence but was a bit unrealistic since there wasn't enough screaming. Ser Rodrick is plenty brave, sure, but after the first sword blow fails to remove his head I would expect him to at least yell or something. But he's a pretty tough old guy. Still, after the second blow failed to remove his head, I expected him at least to say something to somebody about it, or at least to stand up and make another wisecrack at Theon's expense. And it's really this constant lack of unrealism and failure to follow the clear direction of the book that has me quite upset about this episode.

Should I blame the producers for the many missteps in this episode: to whit the bad headjob, Littlefinger's pedarasty, and the multi-storeyed warlock hangout? Should I blame the writer? Should I blame the director who is only filming what the writer wrote who is only writing what the producers pay her to write who are only giving the fans what they want -- opportunities for Tyrion to slap Joffrey?

I blame Pod.

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Wow...whoever's playing Ygritte might actually make me like the character. Nice to see Jon's storyline finally pick up.

I love the changes this episode and I think it will make the show flow better. The scenes with Tywin and Arya are pure gold. I love getting a little backstory on Tytos and the near ruination of House Lannister. Charles Dance is really knocking it out of the park. I can listen to him read the telephone book!

The riot scene was good. I'm not a purist by any means but I really wish they would have kept the line Cersei throws Trant about obeying the Hand of the King. The scene with The Hound saving Sansa is one of those things that really translates well to the screen. So exciting.

I REALLY enjoyed Theon's scenes. Bravo, Alfie Allen for making me feeling sadness and pity for Theon Greyjoy.

I even like what they're doing with Jeyne/Talisa.

The best change is the stolen dragons though. I think this is how it should have gone down in the book. Made no sense that no one would attempt to steal the most powerful weapons in the world. Plus this gives Dany something to do.

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I must admit I was a bit disappointed with the dragon-theft scene. The tower at the end was clearly intended to be the house of the undying, but I've always imagined the house of the undying to be a one-storey ranch-style affair, probably with a stucco exterior. I mean, it isn't called the tower of the undying, is it?

So they turned the house of the undying into the tower of the undying which got me thinking -- what else have they changed in this episode?

Did you notice how Littlefinger kept staring at Arya. I don't remember him being into little girls in the books but suddenly that's his thing in the show? It's really unlike him, IMO, but there you go.

And then the beheading scene. It was reminiscent of the botched beheading of Mary Queen of Scots or the opening execution in Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence but was a bit unrealistic since there wasn't enough screaming. Ser Rodrick is plenty brave, sure, but after the first sword blow fails to remove his head I would expect him to at least yell or something. But he's a pretty tough old guy. Still, after the second blow failed to remove his head, I expected him at least to say something to somebody about it, or at least to stand up and make another wisecrack at Theon's expense. And it's really this constant lack of unrealism and failure to follow the clear direction of the book that has me quite upset about this episode.

Should I blame the producers for the many missteps in this episode: to whit the bad headjob, Littlefinger's pedarasty, and the multi-storeyed warlock hangout? Should I blame the writer? Should I blame the director who is only filming what the writer wrote who is only writing what the producers pay her to write who are only giving the fans what they want -- opportunities for Tyrion to slap Joffrey?

I blame Pod.

This is the best post of the night. Too funny, and spot on.

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Tywin could give up this whole warlord thing and become a speech pathologist. Just sayin. Kinda endearing that Jaime was dyslexic. <3

This episode was so amazing. Thinking Jeyne Westerling needs to be revealed for who she is! Dang it!

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