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[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion

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It’s pretty obvious that the twist in the show is that Pyat Pree or someone else stole the dragons so Dany would have some reason to go to the House of the Undying, right?

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Not really worried about Lady Hornwood missing from the show; they'll have plenty of time to make Ramsays nature known.

Lady Hornwood might appear in season 3/4 as part of Theon's story.

It’s pretty obvious that the twist in the show is that Pyat Pree or someone else stole the dragons so Dany would have some reason to go to the House of the Undying, right?

It might just be the why she kills the Undying Ones.

Edited by greatgeek

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Perhaps the first time I actually enjoyed a departure from the novel. It can't be said enough how much better Theon's story gets by him executing someone as important as Ser Rodrik. And it doesn't really spoil the story in the long run, as Ser Rodrik is due to die quite shortly anyway, so why not make the best of it?

As a whole I have to say that my biggest concern about season 2 was that they would fail to properly convey Theon's story and he will turn into an antagonist. In hindsight I have to say that conveying Theon's story properly, on occasions even better, has been the height of the season, whereas many other storylines suffer. Given his story to come in later books, I am pleased with this development and not at all worried that Theon might be becoming a far-more-important a character than he was in book 2.

Naught shall be spoken on the subject of dragon theft, lest the Doom falls upon us all.

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The priest having his arm torn off like this was some kind of Romero zombie movie really broke it for me.

Also, I HATED the change to Jon Snow's scenes. In the book he made a decision to let Ygritte go. Here just looks like an indecisive flub. This is like writing class 101: people like decisive protagonists not flubs.

Edited by Gongsun Zan

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Very good episode one of the best this season, here was the highlights :

-The Dog being the disgruntled boss of vioLENCE

-Introducing the San / San thing more; really entertaining later on especially highlighting the awesome difference between Arya and Sans, as seen in Book 3; "Stop thinking of ways to kill me in my sleep, Wolf Girl!" vs "Sing me a song, Little Bird!"

-Someone is Dany's base killing her doodz stealing her dragonz

-Good handling of getting the Winterfell escape in a compressed format, it seemed to fit in naturally even though it was rushed overall.

-Tonk's boobs. Yup. The best part, actually was useful to the plot not too gratuitous though a welcome way to fill this week's boob quotient.

-The direction of Ygritte seemed good, already teasing / starting to pursue Jon; the hip thing evil smile was hilarious.

-The Bastard of Bolton incoming! Run, seriously gtfo lock up your daughters. Such a good creepy uber villain character which will be needed after the Purple Wedding.

-Arya yelling at Jaqen then the way they cut it to the darting seriously made me laugh out loud.

-The Littlefinger scene was an interesting little twist.

-They did a good job on the riot, stop whining about horses using them would of been really expensive and dangerous and it didn't take away any from the scene.

This and epsiode 3 were my favorites from season two so far.

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The dragon stealing was probably the biggest departure from the books so far. My first thought was that it was the warlocks, though what was that tower? Could that be the house of the undying?

I see they decided to portray Robb's affair with Jayne. Of course that makes no sense. Book Robb married her because he slept with her. The whole point was that it was a spur of the moment thing. By portraying this as a long affair the show makes Robb look stupid. He knows he shouldn't betray the Freys and still he does it. Makes the RW almost well deserved.

Same with Jon. The whole point of his defection was that Qhorin ordered him to go with them and do whatever they asked of him. Now he's apparently lost with Ygrette and she takes him to Mance herself.

Seeing Tywin Lannister, Hand of the King, Warden of the West, the Queen's father, richest and most powerful man in all the Seven Kingdom's doing psychotherapy sessions with a 10 year old lowborn servant girl was bizarre to say the least. I know this is Hollywood but at least try to make the show look believable.

The best parts of the episode were no doubt in Winterfell. It was interesting to see how Theon is pressured by his men into becoming a tyrant. In the book it kinda came natural to him. I probably prefer this version though I will now not be able to hate this Theon with quite the same passion. Only complaints I have (besides the obvious ones about shortening every scene) are Rodrick apparently going from Winterfell to Torrhen's square, retaking it, then coming back at the same time that it took Theon to get to Winterfell once, and Theon started earlier. Might be a nitpick but it's this kind of things that hurt the immersion in the story. And where's Bolton's bastard? Without him there will have to be major changes to Theon's story too.

I still think it will be a spur of the moment thing, in the episode he knew that he had a duty to fulfill his word to the Freys so it likely that he sleeps with her after hearing that Theon has killed Bran and Rickon as in the books and marrys her to protect her honor.

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thought this was a great episode, loved theon, loved the riot. my only complaint is the scene with little finger. why is little finger so interested in trying to look at who this cupbearer is? it didn't make any sense. i get that you want to have some tension, but it was over the top, seemed like a comedy routine.

It was obvious that Arya was trying to hide her face. That's what piqued his interest, esp after he got a half a glimpse. He knew who she was.

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Weakest episode of the season IMO. Too many "WTF" scenes not because they were changed from the books, but because they made very little sense. Jon's chase of Ygritte was just ridiculous, just as the later scene with them lying next to each other (Rockroi explained perfectly why). Sansa suddenly trusting and treating Shae like a close friend when the last time we saw those two she hated her and thought she was a spy, Dany thinking that a few ships are all she needs to take the iron Throne, Littlefinger and Arya scene (they've really made him totally incompetent at anything besides brothel management this season) - all of this was poorly written.

Some good moments, of course - the riot, the Winterefell scenes, Michelle Fairley being awesome as usual, but overall I was disappointed. Rose Leslie's acting was great, a shame they didn't give her some decent lines instead of all that nonsense.

Edited by David Selig

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I'm a little disappointed that we actually saw Bran and Rickon leaving. I know it doesn't make any matter to me but somehow it was more dramatic when for a time in the books, we thought Theon had actually murdered them both.

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I'm a little disappointed that we actually saw Bran and Rickon leaving. I know it doesn't make any matter to me but somehow it was more dramatic when for a time in the books, we thought Theon had actually murdered them both.

In the books they 'leave', backtrack to confuse the trail, hide, Theon 'murders' them, then after Winterfell falls they actually leave. As this is their first 'leaving' they can still be 'murdered' and be presumed dead for a time.

Edited by Solmyr

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How awesome is Roose Bolton's upside-down flayed man on his breastbone!!!!

"Because the Greyjoy's are treasonous whores..."

PPFFFFFFHHHH

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Loved this episode. My only issues with it are:

- Robb & Talysa scene: Idiotic writing, straight out of a hackneyed hollywood romance. They need to fix their interactions and make them more credible or they will really affect the toe of the show.

- Amory Lorche's death. A farcical moment that felt so out of tune with the episode. I'm sure they meant for it to come off as shocking, they faild. It was laughable, and somehow made the supposedly very real peril Arry is under less credible.

That's it, really. I like with changes to Dany's arc. I hated her arc in the books, and found the fact that no one at any moment ever attempted to steal her tiny baby dragons VERY hard to believe.

Edited by Sun

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In the books they 'leave', backtrack to confuse the trail, hide, Theon 'murders' them, then after Winterfell falls they actually leave. As this is their first 'leaving' they can still be 'murdered' and be presumed dead for a time.

oh yeah, sorry my mistake. It's been a while since I've read Clash of Kings, still shaky remembering it.

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I didn't think this episode was up to par. The Winterfell and KL scenes were quite well done (although I'm not sure what's supposed to have happened to Ser Rodrik's army - were they all crushed at Torrhen's Square?), but some of the changes are completely pointless.

- Myrcella crying when the book specifically made a point of her not crying? This feels like the writer is trying to stick it to GRRM or something, for no reason at all.

- I have no idea where they're going with the Ygritte thing. I hope it doesn't end up being something stupid - like Jon actually deserting or ending up with Mance because of her. These bits are important for his character and they can't afford to mess it up.

- Harrenhal...some nicely acted scenes, sure, but the Amory Lorch stuff just seems to be there for a cheap thrill. And Tywin is being randomly warm and open to his suspicious cupbearer.

- Littlefinger, Littlefinger everywhere. He is really getting on my nerves.

Edited by rmanoj

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Seeing Theon taking Winterfell and beheading Rodrik was great and depressing. It was like reading one of those ASOIAF books :-). Still, it was a little strange that Rodrik was totally alone as it seemed.

Can somebody tell me why this episode was titled as it was? I can´t remember hering the phrase or even seeing the theme.

Anyway, while it wasn´t the worst thing ever on TV, I think I simply dislike style of Vanessa Taylor. She seems to be enjoying writing what she sees as witty dialogue of such characters as Tywin/Arya, Talisa/Robb or Dany/Spice king, but sometimes it looks like sort of parody which quite undermines seriousness of established characters. She is really kinda trying to put some new humor here and there and it rarely works to be honest. About the story itself, only Theon part and kidnapping of dragons seemed to me somehow consequential. I liked KL riot but I would prefer character stuff as Sansa/Dontos and such.

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I think Aiden Gillen must have the best agent on the show! How on earth does he get to appear in every episode when more central characters miss episodes?

I bet he appears in Highgarden next week! Too much Littlefinger!

Other than that, this was a fantastic episode!

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What did the letter say that Arya took? Also, unless Jaqen took it back, wouldn't Tywin know that Arya took it?

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I really don't have much issue with many of the changes. I like the idea of the dragons being used to lure Danny into the House of the Undying. I thought the stuff Arya faced was a great way to force out her second kill. I also think Tywin knows who she is and is amused by her lies. Of course, if so, he's a much kindlier jailer than his crazy family in Kings Landing.

The Robb romance stuff is straight out of bad 2 star romance movie. I'll agree with that.

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Now I'm a bit more coherent, I'll give more of my thoughts:

- Like I said, very happy that Ramsay was mentioned. He's an evil bastard but necessary to the story, IMHO.

- I loved how Bran looked at Theon when he first said he'd taken Winterfell. Kinda like 'bitch, please' :lol: All the scenes there were amazing, despite some tiny changes. Osha was brilliant, and when they sneaked out at the end I was like 'don't forget the wolves!'. Thankfully they were behind them.

- Theon killing Ser Rodrik was awful, but such a good scene. Very powerful.

- Dany's storyline has changed quite a lot, but someone stealing her dragons (and, IMO, taking them to the HotU) isn't a change I have much of a problem with. I like how everything that happens to her is undermining her, making her prove herself - the spice lord was so condescending towards her, I think it shows that yeah, she might have dragons, but she's still a young girl, and she has to earn what she wants. Much more believable, I like it. Not sure why Irri was killed though - her khalasar is shrinking to nothing. I wonder if Doreah as in on the theft of the dragons.. interesting.

- Talisa is one change I don't like. If they end up making her a Lannister spy and it comes out that she's Jeyne Westerling, well, I don't know how that would work. Robb would never marry her after that, so maybe they do the deed, get married, and then it comes out, but she's fallen in love with him during that time? I'm waiting to see on that one, but so far, I'm unimpressed. The best thing about that scene was the looks Catelyn was giving her.

- Arya and Tywin were great, despite the deviation from the books. Charles Dance just nails it, so I can't complain too much. I liked the Amory Lorch scene, it showed the same kind of mindset that Arya had in the book - kill those who are immediately threatening her.

All in all, best episode so far. As an adaptation, it's getting worse, but I'm trying to save myself some disappointment by just watching the show as it's own thing, like I did with Dexter. I hope they don't deviate as far as Dexter did, but most of what they're doing differently works.

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