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[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion

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The best episode so far, IMO!

Good:

  • The sack of Winterfell and Rodrik's 'demise'. Intense stuff and very convincing performance by Isaac, he seemed truly desperate and horrified.
  • The street riots at King's Landing and particularly Sansa's rape scene. In some ways the 'scene' was more impactful in the book (especially the aftermath), but the scene was exciting nonetheless and I really felt pity for Sansa, although Sandor came to her rescue before she was violated.
  • Charles Dance and Maisie, particularly the scene where she tries to hide her identity. It must be great for a young, talented actress to get so much screentime with an experienced actor of Dance's caliber.
  • Jon Snow meets Ygritte. The actress who plays Ygritte was surprisingly good. I really look forward to seeing more of her. And she was also much more attractive than suggested in the books, but I'm not complaining :)

Bad:

  • The scenes with Dany seems a bit 'detached'.This is also how I felt when reading the books as well, but on the other hand her story gets a lot more interesting in book 3.

Overall, this episode had a nice blend of excitement, action and dialogue scenes. When compared to the best episodes of season one, it's still not quite there, I think, but there are four episodes left, and the Darkwater episode in particular has great potential.

EDIT: I rated this episode 9/10, BTW. Why not 10/10? Because a ) a few episodes from season one was slightly better (the first and ninth episodes from season one were excellent) b ) I wouldn't be surprised if some of the last episodes (Blackwater perhaps?) turn out to be even better than this one.

EDIT 2: One more thing: I can't recall that the dragons were stolen (in the books), but I don't think it's too dramatic. For all I know, the sequence just serves as a cliffhanger for the next episode, and then the dragons will be brought back.

Edited by Arya The Assassin

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Something that came up in the nitpick thread but I think are larger questions than that...the news is around that Renly is dead and - based on what we saw from Cersei & Tyrion - it is not a given that it was not Catelyn and/or Brienne. So why doesn't Robb ask his mother about that...and even forgetting that...why doesn't he ask, or get introduced to, this 6'3" puppy dog Catelyn has picked up along the way? These are people that, from a common knowledge perspective, may be responsible for Renly's death.

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The thing I wonder about they're going to keep Theon in the show for seasons 3/4 when he's completely "off screen" but two full books. After this season I'm sure he's going to be a fan favorite so they'll want to keep him around. I think the producers are going to combine AFFC and ADWD like GRRM intended them to be. So Season 5 or 5/6 will be blended storylines from both books.

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That episode was amazing! I loved when The Hound saved Sansa from those men and said "The little bird is bleeding, someone take her back to her cage". There was only two parts of the episode I didn't really like...

1) I didn't like the way Amory Lorch died. It was a funny scene and everything, but kind of dumb.

2) I rolled my eyes when Dany started saying "I am Daenerys Stormborn, mother of dragons, I will take what is mine with fire and blood" blah blah blah Dany we've heard it a hundred times already. You can shut up now.

The way Dany is talking you'd think she's going to sail for Westeros next episode or something.

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Stolen Dragons! Those damn Warlocks! Great twist away from the books. I also love the Arya and Tywin interactions their personalities mesh and this is an improvement from the books in my opinion. I'm also interested to see if Ramsey burns Winterfledt as soon as he takes it over or Robb's marrying that foreign girls springs it. It's also interesting they aren't setting up Tywin using the Westerling Daughter to drive a wedge between the north and the Frey

On the dragons, my immediate reaction was that it was Xaro. They had that long delay with the Spice King, and since Dany is in his house, he was the first one I thought of. In the book, Xaro has zero interest in helping Dany conquer the Seven Kingdoms so the show has got to make him do something to betray her or it will make no sense that she doesn't accept his perfect offer of ships and tons of money to help her reclaim the Iron Throne.

On Robb's woman, I think their scene tonight had a lot of clues in it. I think she is Jeyne Westerling and her story about being from Volantis is completely made up. Robb notices that she is highborn, and Catelyn notices that her family is completely fake. I also think her line about sending information on Robb's troop movements to the Lannisters was really telling. I think they are going to perhaps make her a full blown spy for the Lannisters. She was writing a letter, which as we saw with Arya indicates noble birth, and her joke about it being information for the Lannisters just struck me as true. She definitely folded it up quickly so that Robb and Catelyn couldn't get a look at it. Also, in the scene with Tywin talking about how they are going to defeat Robb, he clearly laid out that they won't beat him in battle and that they need to find out a way to make him fail. We know that failure happens with the Red Wedding, and I think in the same way Margery Tyrell is a combination of her character and her scheming grandmother, Jeyne could be a combination of her and her mother, making Jeyne the mole who reported to Tywin and worked to take Robb down.

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Tywin - The dislexia line caught me unaware. I don't know what to make of Tywin as a parent after that.

I think this was a key insight into their relationship. Jaime was Tywin's heir, and Tywin was damned sure Jaime's illiteracy was not going to harm the house the way his father's "weakness" did. Showed, to me at least, that he while he cares for Jaime he cares more about the legacy Jaime will leave, much like his intro speech in Season 1 showed.

nerd-rage

Reading and watching nerd-rage is always good for a laugh because...

What the hell HBO? :shocked: Where is my ASOIAF???

It's on your bookshelf. This isn't A Song of Ice and Fire. This is Game of Thrones. The sooner people understand this, that this is a television series based on the books and it can never be 100%, let alone 90% or even 80% accurate, the sooner they can lay off the nerd-rage.

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Another needless add-on: Osha sleeping with Theon. Just more gratuitous nudity again. It wasn't necessary to her plot to spirit the boys out of Winterfell, she could just have waited for Theon to be asleep normally and do all the rest. But, that way there would be no bewbies, derp.

I thought this was a great added scene. It builds on the scene between the two from the first season, and keeps non-readers guessing where her loyalties lie for a little longer. Also, that whole scene after she wakes up next to Theon, goes outside, seduces and kills the guard and then whistles to and escapes with Bran, Rickon, Hodor and the direwolves was perfectly executed.

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That episode was amazing! I loved when The Hound saved Sansa from those men and said "The little bird is bleeding, someone take her back to her cage". There was only two parts of the episode I didn't really like...

1) I didn't like the way Amory Lorch died. It was a funny scene and everything, but kind of dumb.

2) I rolled my eyes when Dany started saying "I am Daenerys Stormborn, mother of dragons, I will take what is mine with fire and blood" blah blah blah Dany we've heard it a hundred times already. You can shut up now.

The way Dany is talking you'd think she's going to sail for Westeros next episode or something.

I agree, is she is supposed to be this bratty or it's the way the actress emilia is depicting her..

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Emilia Clarke can do whatever she wants with Daenerys. I'm too in love with her to turn back now.

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I thought this was a great added scene. It builds on the scene between the two from the first season, and keeps non-readers guessing where her loyalties lie for a little longer. Also, that whole scene after she wakes up next to Theon, goes outside, seduces and kills the guard and then whistles to and escapes with Bran, Rickon, Hodor and the direwolves was perfectly executed.

I agree. She "changes sides" in the books, so this was a good way to execute the change concisely while making it easy for the viewers to follow along; especially those that have not read the books. Furthermore, it's been established that Theon is an absolute ass when it comes to women (Ros, the captain's daughter, Yara/Asha, anything with boobs) and is so cocky and over-confident that it is clearly one of his weak points. While I do take issue with HBO's massive over-use of pointless sex and nude scenes, I do not take issue with this one. Also, it was tastefully done as you just saw her naked, but no actual sex scene.

Loved Bran telling Theon that he wouldn't yield the castle more confidently than Theon told him he was taking the castle. :thumbsup:

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I remember she was Maggy the Frog (Cersei's prophecy, too?), but I will be insterested to see if they take out Jeyne/Talisa's mother's role in the apparent scheme, and place it soley on Jeyne/Talisa. I wonder if the viewers will be clued in right away to the suspected plotting unlike in the books where it was only aluded to until much later. Also, would love to see a scene with Grey Wind and Jeyne/Talisa if this is the case.

Okay this whole plot involving Jeyne's mom/Freys/Boltons/Twyin - RED WEDDING is already really confusing as is! Why are they making it worse? I will be really disappointed if they turn this "Jeyne/Talisa" into a schemer. Really would be ruining the whole tragedy!

If the Blackfish did take off with Jeyne (at end of AFFC) then what??

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I remember she was Maggy the Frog (Cersei's prophecy, too?), but I will be insterested to see if they take out Jeyne/Talisa's mother's role in the apparent scheme, and place it soley on Jeyne/Talisa. I wonder if the viewers will be clued in right away to the suspected plotting unlike in the books where it was only aluded to until much later. Also, would love to see a scene with Grey Wind and Jeyne/Talisa if this is the case.

Okay this whole plot involving Jeyne's mom/Freys/Boltons/Twyin - RED WEDDING is already really confusing as is! Why are they making it worse? I will be really disappointed if they turn this "Jeyne/Talisa" into a schemer. Really would be ruining the whole tragedy!

If the Blackfish did take off with Jeyne (at end of AFFC) then what??

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I have really mixed feeling about this episode. I thought the Winterfell scenes were particulary strong, although I was wondering why this entire section of storyline was compressed into a single episode? Of all the stories from Clash, this one could have easily been extended over seasons 2 and 3 to provide some more time for some of the other plotlines.

Dany's story is a real mess. I am not suprised as it is probably the weakest set of chapters in the book, but I wasn't as upset about the silly dragon-napping plot as some. I do find Xaro exceptionally boring. So much screen time and yet I can't get invested.

I really am disliking the Harrenhal storyline. Yes - Maise and Charles Dance have great chemistry, but they are really mishandling Arya's story. The setup of Amory Lorch as illiterate, the stupid chase sequence in the courtyard, and the subsequent magic dart, was like watching bad fan fiction come to life. The idea of Arya using her 2nd death wish to eliminate and immediate threat is an interesting one, but this is what they come up with? Uggh....

And I cannot stand Aiden Gillen. Watching Littlefinger in action, is like watching paint dry.

And while I like the 'near rape' sequence of Sansa - the execution of the opening of the riot and subsequent Sandor Clegane sequence was poorly put together. This could be executed incredibly on screen, the tension slowly building and builidng, and then the explosion of violence. Instead we have starving peasants terroring limbs by hand (I know its referenced from the book but it looked silly onscreen), more moustache twirling Joffrey (who actually attempts at one point in the book to pacify the crowd by tossing some coins), and the Sandor Clegance 8000 dispatching small folks without a thought.

Just like Vanessa's first script, again this felt a first draft, some good scenes, muddled together with some nonsense. Benifoff and Weise really need some more experienced screen writers in the room.

Edited by pleonasm

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Yeah, I have to say I'm not crazy about the Harrenhal storyline.

BookArya would never have revealed she knows how to read, she was so much better as disguising herself and aware of the need to remain hidden. Which is the perfect set up for her Faceless Men future.

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Okay this whole plot involving Jeyne's mom/Freys/Boltons/Twyin - RED WEDDING is already really confusing as is! Why are they making it worse? I will be really disappointed if they turn this "Jeyne/Talisa" into a schemer. Really would be ruining the whole tragedy!

If the Blackfish did take off with Jeyne (at end of AFFC) then what??

I agree that I am not thrilled about the possibility of Jeyne being IN on the scheme as I just re-read AFFC and was reminded how she tore her dress, cried, and was basically in love with Robb and was heartbroken at having had a part in his death and being used as a pawn. While it is confusing, I wonder if GRRM is going to expand on this further in the books? The Maggy/Cersei/Spicer/Redding Wedding/Starks/Jeyne ties are interesting, for sure.

On the other hand, for the TV show, this use of Talisa/Jeyne, if it is where they are going, is interesting.

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