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[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion

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I called here Igg-Ritt

Me too, so switching to Eeee-grit isn't a big adjustment for me. I have a dear friend who insists on calling Tyrion "Tyrone," though, which makes me cringe.

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Okay. So like anyone watching a show, I have my likes and dislikes:

The scene at Winterfell was great. Sure, there are only like eight people living in Winterfell, but they did the best with what they had. I like the change of having Theon behead Rodrik. I do wish that Ramsey and Reek were introduced earlier, but the mere mention of Roose mentioning his bastard was enough for me.

Naked Nymphadora? Oops, Tonks!

Sure, Tywin's being a little too chatty with Arya, but they're still some seriously amazing, award nominating performances. I really like Jaqen, I'm gonna miss him. While I don't like the tickler's death (because I was so looking forward to seeing that in SoS) I like the killing of Amory Lorch, instead of the useless deaths Arya originally chose. I did want the way Jaqen killed Amory to be a little more creative isntead of a dart...

I like tv Ygritte soo much better than book Ygritte. I was cringing waiting for her to say "You know nothing, Jon Snow!" so that I could put my foot through my tv :/ On a side note, it was kind of silly for Jon to not kill her (assuming he's gonna let her go, right?) only to chase her down when she leaves. Huh? I hope he ends up killing Qhorin though.

The Kings Landing riot was as best as they could make it and I enjoyed it! I mean, not only were the horses probably too expensive to get, but that would have been very dangerous for everyone involved to include the horses. San/San was awesome! I somehow thought this would be the only San/San interaction in the book. I wish he didn't carry her like a sack of flour though. He should have carried her like the repenting non-knight he is!

I guess we won't see any more Ser Dontos this season.

It's cool we get to see Robb, since we don't see much of him in CoK. I just wish Catelyn wasn't there to remind him of his duties because now he's gonna look even more like a moron when he marries her. And I don't understand the alias. When he finds out she's Jeyne Westerling, shouldn't the fact that she lied to him about her identity throw him off from marrying her (if not his vow to the Freys).

Okay, to the last scene. I normally don't like new scenes being added to the story (I can deal with leaving stuff out, because I understand its hard to condense a 1000 page novel into a 50 minute 10 episode season) but this one works because Dany didn't really have much to do in CoK except wander around the Red Waste and go to the House of the Undying. And when reading the books I did wonder why no one tried to steal her dragons. I don't care that the storyline was made up, what I did mind was them killing off the rest of her tiny khalasar, and killing off Irri. I know, everyone's like, she's only a handmaiden, she doesn't serve a purpose, blah blah... but why is Doreah still alive? Dany had three handmaids, and the two brown ones who are supposed to be alive (Irri and Jhiqui, no one seems to know what happened to Jhiqui from season one) are dead. Yet Doreah lives when SHE is the one who's supposed to be dead. The "hot" one, whatever. Dont' try to tell me it isn't about this, because it totally is. Okay, whatever. As long as we get to see Dany's visions.

And where were Jorah and Doreah when this was happening??

Oh and I loved the Spice King schooling Dany. I love Dany, she's one of my favorite characters and I do hope SHE will be the one to claim the Iron Throne one day, but tv Dany is getting a little obnoxious. She will take what is hers with fire and blood, she is the Mother of Dragons, she walked into a burning pit, she's immune to fire, she did the impossible, okay we get it!!! She's acting wayyy too entitled, and if I hear that line one more time...

Oh and what is everypne's theory about Dagmer being Ramsay? Did I miss something?

I will now end my post with this:

It is known.

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I like tv Ygritte soo much better than book Ygritte. I was cringing waiting for her to say "You know nothing, Jon Snow!" so that I could put my foot through my tv :/ On a side note, it was kind of silly for Jon to not kill her (assuming he's gonna let her go, right?) only to chase her down when she leaves. Huh? I hope he ends up killing Qhorin though.

The Kings Landing riot was as best as they could make it and I enjoyed it! I mean, not only were the horses probably too expensive to get, but that would have been very dangerous for everyone involved to include the horses. San/San was awesome! I somehow thought this would be the only San/San interaction in the book. I wish he didn't carry her like a sack of flour though. He should have carried her like the repenting non-knight he is!

Okay, to the last scene. I normally don't like new scenes being added to the story (I can deal with leaving stuff out, because I understand its hard to condense a 1000 page novel into a 50 minute 10 episode season) but this one works because Dany didn't really have much to do in CoK except wander around the Red Waste and go to the House of the Undying. And when reading the books I did wonder why no one tried to steal her dragons. I don't care that the storyline was made up, what I did mind was them killing off the rest of her tiny khalasar, and killing off Irri. I know, everyone's like, she's only a handmaiden, she doesn't serve a purpose, blah blah... but why is Doreah still alive? Dany had three handmaids, and the two brown ones who are supposed to be alive (Irri and Jhiqui, no one seems to know what happened to Jhiqui from season one) are dead. Yet Doreah lives when SHE is the one who's supposed to be dead. The "hot" one, whatever. Dont' try to tell me it isn't about this, because it totally is. Okay, whatever. As long as we get to see Dany's visions.

And where were Jorah and Doreah when this was happening??

Oh and I loved the Spice King schooling Dany. I love Dany, she's one of my favorite characters and I do hope SHE will be the one to claim the Iron Throne one day, but tv Dany is getting a little obnoxious. She will take what is hers with fire and blood, she is the Mother of Dragons, she walked into a burning pit, she's immune to fire, she did the impossible, okay we get it!!! She's acting wayyy too entitled, and if I hear that line one more time...

It is known.

Hehe, I don't know about the book Ygritte, but this one is beautiful by both wildling and common standards, and definitely knows how to, ahem, warm Jon up :D Maybe his dirty subconscious was at work while chasing her. An amazing cast choice for Ygritte. But I completely agree with you on the very last scene - where the hell is Doeah and where was Jorah?!! I don't mind the dragons being stolen, it definitely adds to the dynamic, but it seems quite suspicious, almost as if an inside person was involved? And Dany totally got pawned :(

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Okay, to the last scene. I normally don't like new scenes being added to the story (I can deal with leaving stuff out, because I understand its hard to condense a 1000 page novel into a 50 minute 10 episode season) but this one works because Dany didn't really have much to do in CoK except wander around the Red Waste and go to the House of the Undying. And when reading the books I did wonder why no one tried to steal her dragons. I don't care that the storyline was made up, what I did mind was them killing off the rest of her tiny khalasar, and killing off Irri. I know, everyone's like, she's only a handmaiden, she doesn't serve a purpose, blah blah... but why is Doreah still alive? Dany had three handmaids, and the two brown ones who are supposed to be alive (Irri and Jhiqui, no one seems to know what happened to Jhiqui from season one) are dead. Yet Doreah lives when SHE is the one who's supposed to be dead. The "hot" one, whatever. Dont' try to tell me it isn't about this, because it totally is. Okay, whatever. As long as we get to see Dany's visions.

And where were Jorah and Doreah when this was happening??

I'm ok with they adding stuff to make it more interesting, what's going to be difficult is that the "possible dragon theft" was something left open in the book, it was hardly ever considered, specially because it would raise the question and mainly because we always knew how easy it would be until Dany got her Unsullied. It was the magic of it. I always thought of it as some strange politeness or culture feature.

I saw some people saying that maybe it's just to bring her to the HOTU, but then why kill all those guards and Irri ( I really liked her :/ )

It is known. [2]

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I would be very sad if they chose which handmaiden had to die based upon which one was the more attractive actress. Since I think Doreah betrayed them, I don't think it's unreasonable that Irri died in the theft, though. Along with everyone else. It's not like she was singled out.

It would be interesting if Jorah was the betrayer. There wouldn't need to be a huge change for that to be the case, at least through aDwD.

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And what a butcher!!!! How many times did it take Theon to behead Ser Roderick?

It was three times in the book, looked like overkill in the show if u ask me, but i think it got the point across that Theon is weak and has no business doing what he's doing...

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If I were creating a nic for the site, after reading the episode 206 threads, it would have to be Myrcella's Tears. Since it is clearly the most important thing ever to have happened in the history Westeros, books and show combined.

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Damn Charles Dance!

Tywin was one of the Characters i hated most (cause of tyrion and RW)

but now that i see Dance playing him i kind of like him

is dialogues with Arya are pure gold! / and he sticks to the character, just showing us more of his human side

Totally agree I like what they're doing with Tywin. He a typical Martin character not good or evil - just capable of both, I think he would know Arya is a highborn, In the books when Theon is adapting to his new persona he has to take care to say "m'lord"instead of "my lord" to keep from giving away his noble birth.

The character they're doing the worst with has to be Baelish. On the show he seems obvious and not especially clever. In the book he is a total enigma, you can never be sure what his motivations or loyalties are. He just seems to thrive in the chaos. Gillen is doing the best he can with the material but still disappointing.

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Totally agree I like what they're doing with Tywin. He a typical Martin character not good or evil - just capable of both, I think he would know Arya is a highborn, In the books when Theon is adapting to his new persona he has to take care to say "m'lord"instead of "my lord" to keep from giving away his noble birth.

The character they're doing the worst with has to be Baelish. On the show he seems obvious and not especially clever. In the book he is a total enigma, you can never be sure what his motivations or loyalties are. He just seems to thrive in the chaos. Gillen is doing the best he can with the material but still disappointing.

I detest Tywin. I can't wait to see him losing bowel control as he looks incredulously at the crossbow bolt skewering his lower. The only thing I'll enjoy more is Shae's strangling. THAT will be my favorite episode.

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The character they're doing the worst with has to be Baelish. On the show he seems obvious and not especially clever. In the book he is a total enigma, you can never be sure what his motivations or loyalties are. He just seems to thrive in the chaos. Gillen is doing the best he can with the material but still disappointing.

I actually think they are handling Baelish quite cleverly. When you stop to think about it, only we the viewers get to see 'more' of him, because we see him interract with so many different people. And yes, I know he has been given some additional scenes, but that only adds to his mystery.

To the various characters in the TV series, he only shows the face he wants them to see of him. But as viewers see, he has many faces depending on who he is with. I rather enjoy this aspect, because when viewers see him playing up to so many people and helping them plot against each other, we start to wonder which is the 'real' Baelish, if indeed we have yet seen anything of that person. What IS he up to? You certainly can't determine that from the series so far. He seems more obvious in the TV series because we are seeing him objectively, and not through the eyes of others in their book POVs.

Edited by Currawong

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What happens to the third wish? Because Lord Bolton is with Robb Stark and I don't know what is going to happen next. I mean Aria used the third wish to capture the Harrenhall for Lord Bolton...

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Dany announcing what she and her dragons will do in every episode is becoming very much like Robb's camp announcing that he's KOTN. Really just comical to me.

And are we really expected to believe that Robb would not question his mother about Renly's death, or notice the 6'3" woman she's picked up on her way back? :shocked: Really, because that just seriously pushes the envelope of credulity in my estimation. I don't care how infatuated you are with Volantine Medicine Woman, a six foot three woman wearing battle armor following your mother around would still be hard to miss.

Or, perhaps I'm just preternaturally perceptive. LOL.

Ha! That's exactly what I thought. Robb welcomes his mother back and doesn't even take a glance at the big sodding giant that she's brought back with her. You'd think he'd at least make some subtle gesture, or that Catelyn might even make an effort to say "yo boy, this is my new close protection. Oh, and she's a woman who can remove the head from the shoulders of any man". In fact, you'd also think that half the camp would be stopping to take a glance. That's kind of the point of Brienne; she's something of a curiosity which is partly where her awkwardness comes from.

In fact, one of the things that I've noticed is that a lot of the subtlety has left this series. Last series, there were little asides hat added to the depth of the characters (the nods between Robert and Ned at Winterfell, the glance between Ned and Arya when Sansa was talking about Joffrey, Theon's reaction to the news that Robb would have to marry a Frey, etc). Those little touches are being removed or replaced with hit-you-in-the-face exposition or WTF!!! moments.

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What happens to the third wish? Because Lord Bolton is with Robb Stark and I don't know what is going to happen next. I mean Aria used the third wish to capture the Harrenhall for Lord Bolton...

I expect Harrenhal to fall to the North in the next two episodes. Northmen will be captured next week leaving Arya to decide whether to use her third wish to kill Tywin or free her people.

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And yes, I know he has been given some additional scenes, but that only adds to his mystery.

I'm wondering if these extra Littlefinger scenes with the Arya plotline are leading to something specific -- that wasn't in the books. First, we have the gratuitous scene where Cersei threatens his life and tells him to have his people find Arya. At the time, no one understood why that scene was added other than to make Cersei look like she's losing her composure. Then, we have the gratuitous scene in this episode where Arya is, of all places in the Seven Kingdoms, attending to Tywin and she even spills wine on Littlefinger. People seem to think that this scene was added just to increase artificial tension, but they had enough tension with Lorch seeing her with the note and chasing her, etc.

I don't know what it's building to. Maybe when Tywin shows up in Kings Landing, Littlefinger will ask "where's Arya Stark? Didn't you bring her? She was your cupbearer at Harrenhal. What do you mean you didn't know? How could you not know? Young, educated Northern girl on her own about a thousand miles from home. Same age as the young educated Northern girl that your daughter, Varys and my spies have been searching frantically for not far from here. You didn't know? When was the last time you saw her?"

In the books, Littlefinger had no involvement at all in the Arya plot. I have to believe these two extra scenes that chewed up precious minutes and made no sense at the time will tie in somewhere down the road.

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What happens to the third wish? Because Lord Bolton is with Robb Stark and I don't know what is going to happen next. I mean Aria used the third wish to capture the Harrenhall for Lord Bolton...

The letter that Arya read stated that Robb was heading south via the coast, it also mentioned something about Silverhill which is just southwest of Harrenhal. I take that to mean that we will be seeing Robb's forces, probably under Bolton take the cursed castle sometimes soon, possibly episode 10.

Edited by Sun

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Best episode this season. I felt a bit cheated about not seeing the attack on Winterfell but I think the first we heard about it in the book was when Bran got woke up.

In the book, Bran has warged into Summer and sees the attack from outside the castle. I was hoping they would do it that way in the series, but I fully understand it would have taken away the dramatic impact. What works on the page - i.e. the wolf thinking of 'man-rocks' and the scents of blood and steel etc., won't work the same in the visual medium. Then, yes, Ser Tom, boy and wolf separate again and Bran wakes up in bed.

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Ha! That's exactly what I thought. Robb welcomes his mother back and doesn't even take a glance at the big sodding giant that she's brought back with her. You'd think he'd at least make some subtle gesture, or that Catelyn might even make an effort to say "yo boy, this is my new close protection. Oh, and she's a woman who can remove the head from the shoulders of any man". In fact, you'd also think that half the camp would be stopping to take a glance. That's kind of the point of Brienne; she's something of a curiosity which is partly where her awkwardness comes from.

In fact, one of the things that I've noticed is that a lot of the subtlety has left this series. Last series, there were little asides hat added to the depth of the characters (the nods between Robert and Ned at Winterfell, the glance between Ned and Arya when Sansa was talking about Joffrey, Theon's reaction to the news that Robb would have to marry a Frey, etc). Those little touches are being removed or replaced with hit-you-in-the-face exposition or WTF!!! moments.

That's actually an excellent point. I totally forgot about Brienne, the distraction we get from Jeyne and Robb. But seriously, Renly died quickly and was quickly forgotten, and the huge blonde woman-knight is also forgotten. ha!

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