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[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion

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Looking more closely at that letter... I no longer think there's any credence to the idea that it is evidence of a spy in Robb's camp.

It seems pretty clear that the bit before the line about Robb Stark moving south down the coast is "Scouts..." Probably "Scouts report". It seems natural enough to think that there'll be men in the west keeping an eye on Robb's movements and reporting them.

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I expect Harrenhal to fall to the North in the next two episodes. Northmen will be captured next week leaving Arya to decide whether to use her third wish to kill Tywin or free her people.

That's the only take away I can get from Tywin's microsecond clip on the preview. That the Brave Companions have returned with the prisoners. I didn't expect the book's storyline to followed at this point, maybe it wont.

Still Tywin has to leave soon, end of this episode, start of E8?

So Weasel Soup in E8 (as has been prophesied).... but not much time left for Harrenhal stuff, Aray's escape in E10.

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Favorite episode of the season so far, even with the large deviations and the added stuff for Dany.

How can you not love watching Joffrey get hit in the face with shit and slapped in the same episode.

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I think Harrenhal will pretty much go the same as the book, just without Roose Bolton. Tywin leaves, Brave Companions switch sides as part of Weasel Soup.

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I think Harrenhal will pretty much go the same as the book, just without Roose Bolton. Tywin leaves, Brave Companions switch sides as part of Weasel Soup.

Have the Brave Companions even been mentioned yet? I'd like to see the goat.

Also, not having Roose at Harrenhal means that there won't be a set-up for "Jaime Lannister sends his regards", which would be a disappointment. Unless they decide to change that to "Talisa from Volantis sends her regards"...

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Am I the only one thinking the show is damn faithful to the books ?

All the changes there were were merely tiny changes, some little stuff modified.

But the core is still there, the main story lines

are still there, no change has been really

important so far, only tiny details were modified but this is still the exact same story as in the books.

A friend of mine and myself were talking about this the other day-he hasn't read the books- i was telling him that he was lucky for not having read the books because he benefits from not being upset about the changes. And after I ranted on for a half hour about the millions of little (I felt) unnecessary changes he said that I was overreacting because they all sounded to him like tiny changes that won't really change much in the but that are more important/symbolic to fans of the books, who are bound to find things they don't like about the 'adaptation'. Plus the generic "it can't be exactly like it was in the books" line. My argument was that I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't becoming painfully obvious that the writers of the show are making a point of showing that theirs is a different story.

My best example of this is Renly's lack of peach. Now I know this will sound petty to some people who claim that the peach holds absolutely no importance to the story; I agree to a point, but the writers proved in the same episode that they knew about the peach (focus shot of Renly reaching for the apple) but chose to leave it out purposefully knowing readers were anticipating seeing it. Because if you read the book that little insignificant peach was a topic of discussion for at least a few pages. Stannis dwells on it forever, and while I can understand not being able to make time for that not including the peach seems to me to be a deliberate slap in the face.

Most changes have been small, just so. But they are all over the place. Taking ideas and decisions away from certain characters and giving them to other ones, removing characters and combing those lost stories into the stories of main characters.

Now I'm rambling but i want to make it clear that I am not actually trashing the show. On it's own it is great, but as a person who was seriously looking forward to seeing a great series of books turned into a tv show I was and am continually disappointed to find out that I am instead watching a cheap version of fanfiction(it is essentially somebody else's rewrite) even though they have kept the main plot points I get the feeling that they'll continue to skip over some great subplots. And furthermore the way certain scenes played out so differently on the show than they did in the books makes me no longer looking forward to certain scenes as much as I am afraid to see what changes they'll make. The down and up playing of certain characters will eventually have to effect the end story differently.

As of right now I'm doubting if I'll look forward to the RW, Jon joining the free folk/killing QH/Jamie,brine and VHoat/the purple wedding/Ramsay takes winterfell and so much more. I could be wrong(I seriously hope I am) but I think when those scenes finally happen these boards are going to be filled with angry readers.

Just my opinion on the subject

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Have the Brave Companions even been mentioned yet? I'd like to see the goat.

Also, not having Roose at Harrenhal means that there won't be a set-up for "Jaime Lannister sends his regards", which would be a disappointment. Unless they decide to change that to "Talisa from Volantis sends her regards"...

I was looking forward to seeing the Bloody Mummers but after seeing the way everyone's been sanitized on this show they'd just end up being more extras in Lannister colours.

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Vargo Hoat has not been cast this season as far as I can tell. I suspect we won't even see the bloody mummers this season. It may be that Arya uses her 3rd kill to escape rather than killing the guard herself.

Edited by Tadco26

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Once Tywin leaves, there needs to be a STRONG reason for Arya to leave, I don't see why they wouldn't keep him as that.

Maybe it'll just be the news of her brothers that will prompt her to leave...

Edited by HouseLancaster

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Maybe it'll just be the news of her brothers that will prompt her to leave...

The main thing is Arya's trick of getting Jaqen to do some more than simply taking out a single victim.

That was a delicious surprise in the book ... I am guessing D&D have not missed that point.

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This was my favorite episode of the season thus far. I had been quite distracted by the seemingly pointless changes from the source text... just little things irritating me. I have no beef when the source text is changed, but is also interesting and better for the medium, as, in my opinion, we saw in episode 6. For example, I understand killing Ser Rodrik... he's someone that's been endeared to the audience over the course of season 1, so we feel the loss and realize just how low Theon has sunk--it had to be someone we already met to have this effect.

My biggest complaint about the season so far is, as has been mentioned earlier, the lack of subtlety in the writing. There's just so much going on that we miss out on little moments that wink to the readers and may pass over the heads of those viewers who haven't delved into the books yet. I think that moments like that are necessary and very rewarding to those of us who are constantly looking at the series through the lens of the books.

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I actually think they are handling Baelish quite cleverly. When you stop to think about it, only we the viewers get to see 'more' of him, because we see him interract with so many different people. And yes, I know he has been given some additional scenes, but that only adds to his mystery.

To the various characters in the TV series, he only shows the face he wants them to see of him. But as viewers see, he has many faces depending on who he is with. I rather enjoy this aspect, because when viewers see him playing up to so many people and helping them plot against each other, we start to wonder which is the 'real' Baelish, if indeed we have yet seen anything of that person. What IS he up to? You certainly can't determine that from the series so far. He seems more obvious in the TV series because we are seeing him objectively, and not through the eyes of others in their book POVs.

I'm starting to agree with this viewpoints. I've read through a couple of non-reader threads and they basically see Baelish the way we see him in the book. He seems very popular among the non-book readers from what I can tell. Also agree with the point that its much easier for MArtin to have people comment on how devious Littlefinger is through their monologue than to do that on the show. Plus it would be a little more shocking/realistic if he didn't seem to be the little miss perfect schemer he was in the book.

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I don't know why people are picking on Littlefinger ending up at Harrenhal. He left the Tyrell camp within a day of Catelyn, and Catelyn reaches Robb in the westerlands this episode, an even further distance. The show has decided to not bother at all with trying to make sense of travel or suggest the passage of time.

Also, Littlefinger's conversation with Tywin sets up the Tyrell's arrival at the end of the Battle of the Blackwater. Without that scene or something like it, that would come completely out of the blue.

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I'm definitely on the "one-of-the-best-episodes-so-far" camp.

The sack of Winterfell was really heartbreaking. The contrast of Bran's reactions at the begining when Theon enters his room and during the beheading of Ser Rodrick was a nice touch. The kid is doing a fine acting job. And Theon - there was definitely an "Anakyn Skywalker"-moment there. The expression on his face after he kicks off the head from the body says clearly "There is no turning back". I've actually never liked Theon, but love the drama of his character.

Btw, am I the only one who is wondering where Summer is, when Theon comes into Bran's room? They didn't exclusively emphasized in the show that the wolves are held captive in the God's wood, did they?

Those wide shots in the second season of the show are really great. Love the scenes north of the Wall. Love to see Ghost again. Qhorin was not exactly how I imagined him and I have a problem with the fact, that Jon was the one who wanted to join Qhorin's group in the show. IIRC Qhorin took the initiative in the books. But I could live with that. Hopefully they will go somewhere with those changes. I can't understand all the complaining about the Jon/Ygritte - scenes. Yes, there are some changes, but I am still positive and prefer to wait and see the purpose of all this. I got from the scene that Jon was hesitating to kill Ygritte (as in the books). I think it was a last-minute decision to cut the rock instead of Ygritte's head, when he realized he cannot kill a woman. But then he panicked and started chasing her without thinking. It was just some rush panicking-reaction imo. I still wonder about the purpose of this change - perhaps it is a setup for the Jon-Ygritte relationship. I just hope they won't change Jon's character in some drastic way. I'm ok with the Jon-scenes so far. The actress playing Ygritte is great and the chemistry between them works so far. I am still convinced that Jon won't go straight to the wildlings-camp without having killed Qhorin.

The Arya/Tywin scenes are superb. Those two could really have a show on their own and no one would complain abot that. I am not a Lannister fan (except for Tyrion and a bit of Jaime) so even if Tywin is represented more humanly in the show, I don't like him. Charles Dance is doing a great job though. Don't mind the dialog between him and Arya, don't mind even the hiding game with LF. My only complaint is that we see too much LF and not enough Varys. Want more Varys! Stealing the letter gave Arya a good reason to choose the second death. It was more plausible for the non-book readers that way imo.

The riot scene in KL was very intense. I don't mind the lack of hourses. The anger of the crowd, the panick of the nobles - I just bought it. My only complaint was that Joff got slapped only once.

Dany's scenes were at least interesting for me as always. I enjoyed how condescendig the spice merchant was. And the whole "I will burn this and that... " is really starting to go on my nerves. The stealing of the dragons didn't wake any emotions. We all know she is going to have her dragons back at the House of Undying. I still have some hope for the prophesies left.

Robb, oh Robb, you trully are a King! I hate that the show made Robb such a lovable character. I liked him in the books, but the second season showed him in a really good light. Now I like him even more in the show. I have no doubts that Jane is the beautiful nurse. Still not sure what the purpose of the whole hiding of her personality is. I gues we'll have to wait and see.

Imho this episode was really dynamic, dramatic, showed some very important moments and despite all the changes from the series, it was really great.

Edited by Lyana

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The scene where Theon executed Ser Rodrik was one of the strongest in the episode but I'm worried about the repercussions it might cause. Now ramsay cannot kill him and the rest the men returning from Torrhens Square as he did in the book so when he comes to "liberate" Winterfell he can hardly be seen as the SOB that he is. GRRM said in an interview that he doesn't consider any of his characters wholly evil but Ramsay is as close it gets. I want his portrayal in the show to match this.

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The scene where Theon executed Ser Rodrik was one of the strongest in the episode but I'm worried about the repercussions it might cause. Now ramsay cannot kill him and the rest the men returning from Torrhens Square as he did in the book so when he comes to "liberate" Winterfell he can hardly be seen as the SOB that he is. GRRM said in an interview that he doesn't consider any of his characters wholly evil but Ramsay is as close it gets. I want his portrayal in the show to match this.

Ramsay killing Luwin would be awesome, IMO.

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This is a tv series that only gets to follow specific POV's.... one of the biggest issues is that the book goes on about 50,000 different plot tangents which is why now by book 5 we are basically seeing no progress. It is pretty hard to make significant progress with so many plot arcs... The whole point of the TV show being different is they are giving more time and more storyline to main arcs because it is blatantly less time/material to work with. People say its 10 different 1 hour episodes but this isnt even true at all. The show starts at 9pm they say but the show actually doesnt even begin til like 9:04 then the opening sequence is a few minutes in itself, then the show winds up ending at like 9:51. Each episode is actually more like 50 minutes. We want this show to last so it has to appeal to all demographics and have different entertainment values like comedy, violence, sex appeal and drama to survive the prime time world.

People condemn the 2nd most wealthy guy in Quaith for being so over the top and strange but thats what they were like in similar times (think of the guy in Gladiator that announced the games for the Gladiator arena all fancy in his wig and makeup). People condemn Robb for how he acted with Tylisa/Jeyne saying for him to be a kid since its his first love... Robb is the 'king' so he acted like a kid trying to be a king flirting with a girl with false arrogance. And they did age him up so it isnt like he is the same child in the books...

As for this season seeming rushed.. in a lot of ways I agree it is but I blame HBO for not giving the season enough time to handle depicting so many different arcs. We dont get 10 hours we get more like 9 when all is said and done with credits, stupid show previews and late starts so there is no way for us to get the elaborate show we all want... Which is why its perfectly fine that apparently Littlefinger has access to secret railroads to travel around because if we based his travel on a somewhat realistic timeline itd wind up taking him 7 episodes to go from one place to the next.

And my one main negative I must say... is that some people are so happy they saw the direwolves... Idk about you but I agree with the few who have mentioned the lack of wolf action this season. I feel like the most we have gotten so far is the equivalent of the wolves hopping on screen, waving to us then scampering off to who knows where. The amount we see them isnt even enough to be considered cameos. Ghost hasnt looked like the vicious and intuitive wolf I see in the books hes some wandering wolf that pops in to say hi then disappears to have no involvement in the storyline whatsoever.

If this show had more legitimate time to display the storylines I think it would be phenomenally better to everybody, there is no reason to just get 10 short episodes. There is WAY too much story to be told and the lack of time to show it is the sole reason for all of the complaints we see about timewarping Littlefinger and all rushed storytelling. That and the fact that some people just love nitpicking about SOMETHING because lets be honest one of the best things about a show is the ability to criticize because a show thrives on positive AND negative critique.... what we should worry about is if nobody says ANYTHING. Love and hate implies the show is on our minds.... ignorance and silence implies this show is doomed... So it is safe to say we are all safe for the next season... Hopefully HBO decides to start the show on time.. stop showing so many previews during our dedicated GOT timeslot... and give us some more damn episodes to tell the overwhelmingly elaborate story with some justice!!

And on a side note I did actually laugh when Lorch got sniped like that, as random as the method was. Theres nothing wrong with a little laughter people..

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I don't get why they went for a 10 episode format. The show would've benefited immensely from a 12 episode format.

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It may be that Arya uses her 3rd kill to escape rather than killing the guard herself.

Jesus fucking christ I hope not. That would be the single worst change in the entire series so far and it would be so bad that I just might give up on the series if they do that. Arya needs to kill that guard, by herself, using her wits (dropping the coin) and saying "valar morghulis". Since that's the title of the final episode I'm hoping that this scene will be intact, at least.

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