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[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion


Ran
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New Mountain still disappoints me. Comes off as your average Lannister guard.

I don't get these complaints. He was huge, had a big dark beard, and a super deep gravelly voice. He was very convincing as the Mountain to me. Why are people bitching?

Book purists need to understand this isnt the books. It the show.

Are people really going to blow a casket every time there's a deviation from the books?

It's called an adaptation. Learn what that means, please.

OMG will you people shut up already? I guess not, but damn this is irritating. As if every goddamn criticism of the series was a stupid nitpick or unreasonable. As if people didn't grasp that it's an adaptation. As if an adaptation was synonym with "making shit up as we go along". As it "adaptation" was the magic seal against any form of criticism, no matter how badly written a scene may be. Ugh.

And you know what? I've been accused of being a purist... and yet I liked this episode. I give it a solid 8. Weird huh? Dany's story is the only thing I didn't like, because it's just complete nonsense and gratuitous. I pretty much loved the rest though... changes and all (zomg). Because guess what, I like good TV and I don't like bad TV. It's not that hard to grasp.

I'm really surprised that they chose to have Sansa's flowering scene - particularly because she's supposed to be a lot older than she is from the books. Are they counting on viewers to be completely ignorant to women's reproduction cycles?

You sure sound ignorant yourself. Sophie Turner is 16, and she's playing Sansa who is 13-14 in the TV series. A perfectly reasonable age for a first period. Even having it at 16 is hardly unheard of, though a bit rarer. She's a young maid, not a young adult, sheesh.

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I kind of hated the scene with Arya and Tywin

Arya says "my lord"

Tywin says "noble girls says "milord" not "my lord"

then Arya says bla bla taught to speak properly "my lord"

Shouldn't Tywin have been supposed to say "noble girls say my lord not "milord" >_>

mistakes!

Edited by Chronicler
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Oh yeah, I want to talk about a scene that really grabbed me. I don't care for TV-Quaithe's goofy mask much, or that she's just involved with Jorah instead of Dany (and, uh, painting people strangely...), but when she asked Jorah if he would betray her again, Iain Glen's face then was just... OMG. Heartbreaking. I just wanted to hug him right there and tell him everything was ok. :D The actor is really good, you could tell he's madly in love with Dany. Poor, poor Jorah, it's just so sad when you know what will happen. Ah, that face...

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I kind of hated the scene with Arya and Tywin

Arya says "my lord"

Tywin says "noble girls says "milord" not "my lord"

then Arya says bla bla taught to speak properly "my lord"

Shouldn't Tywin have been supposed to say "noble girls say my lord not "milord" >_>

mistakes!

I think he said "lowborn girls" not "noble girls".
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OMG will you people shut up already? I guess not, but damn this is irritating. As if every goddamn criticism of the series was a stupid nitpick or unreasonable. As if people didn't grasp that it's an adaptation. As if an adaptation was synonym with "making shit up as we go along". As it "adaptation" was the magic seal against any form of criticism, no matter how badly written a scene may be. Ugh.

And you know what? I've been accused of being a purist... and yet I liked this episode. I give it a solid 8. Weird huh? Dany's story is the only thing I didn't like, because it's just complete nonsense and gratuitous. I pretty much loved the rest though... changes and all (zomg). Because guess what, I like good TV and I don't like bad TV. It's not that hard to grasp.

Hear, hear! People should be allowed to criticize the show just as much as people should be allowed to praise it.

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Cat is about to hold Brienne's sword to his chest and make him do quite a bit of vowing. I won't say anymore...

I don't see the Jaime from that episode caring enough about anything to do any vowing. It almost would make sense that she takes the hand at this point to impress things on him. Where the hell are they going to fit Vargo in at this point...storylines and characters are dropping like flies.

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My main complaints here is for Jon....... man, he HAS TO be given the order by Qhorin to join them... and it seems they are going to skip this, that is the first real change I'm not fond of !

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I loved the episode. I loved the changes, even the changes to Jamie, which though painful for me as a Kingslayer fangirl, I found dramatically justified, especially in relation to future Jamie.

I really don't have much to say about "A Man Without Honor" except to say that "Baelor" was surpassed tonight, imo.

David Nutter is a keeper. Brilliant director!

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Good points:

- Catelyn's exchange with Karstark. Also her scene with Jaime near the end - and people had doubts about Michelle Fairley!!! That is some great acting right there, she is Catelyn.

- Theon presenting the corpses - even if it's a bit derailed from the books, it just instigated a huge wave of hate inside me (which is precisely what the scene is about). The soundtrack complimented it very well. Also, props to Donald Sumpter in his portrayal of Maester Luwin :)

- Sansa's scenes - very well handled :)

Bad points:

-Bran&co merrily walking around - why oh gods why??? They'd be caught in a split second.

Also, unless there's an unexpected turn of events, I really think they're setting up Dagmer and Ramsey to be one and the same person....

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I am generally not a fan of any changes and quite a "purist", but liked this episode MUCH more than the last one. No plainly stupid careless scenes like Lorch with the wrong letter and dropping dead at Tywin´s feet.

I have no problem with Tywin and Arya, Tywin is not cruel and haughty without a good reason, I find it absolutely believable he would let his guard down as has already been stated. Remember we never got a Tywin POV in the books, and how peoples perception of Jaime changed when we got his POV.

Once I got over the "running away" bit, which is still silly though, I also liked Jon and Ygritte. very funny banter. I laughed until I cried when she mimicked Jon "I thought he was done and then he said turn back around." Also, Leslie really made her you know nothing line work, much better than I had been expecting.

Dany ... we´ll have to see where the show is going with that, for now I am giving it the benefit of the doubt.

Overall the episode was a bit heavy on talk, teh Jaime and Alton scene really dragged.

Still, I give the episode a good seven, plus one extra point for three episodes without gratuitous explicit sex scenes, so it´s 8/10.

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fascinating episode. Lots of juicy backstory, memorable scenes and interesting changes from the book:

  • Winterfell: Nice to see Rickon speaking, and cute little scene of the foursome on the lamb! The unhinged Theon is a delight to watch - at this stage Alfie Allen has mastered the flipping between utter disgust at himself, to taking pleasure from his sick actions. I didnt get why Theon's 2nd in command called Theon over to look at walnuts!?! Why would that mean anything.

Because Rickon has been crushing walnuts all season and Osha specifically talked about Rickon eating them "Rickon can't survive on walnuts"..."I'm fine!" or something of that nature during their lamb scene. Not sure how much more time we could have spent on walnuts this season to give that scene more meaning lol.

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...and the Dagmer/Ramsay thing...cripes already. Ramsay/Boltons capture/sack Winterfell and take Theon hostage...we don't need to see an actual Ramsay, next season they can cast him and we learn he's been torturing Theon. I just explained the whole plot twist in one sentence so I'm sure the writers can do much better w/o having to turn Ramsay into some super spy who infiltrated the Iron Born at an early age just to take Winterfell in case there was a war where Ned Starks head was taken and the Iron Born had a window to take Winterfell w/ the newly returned prince Theon who they just assumed would be a weak minded, easily influenced pawn to Bolton schemes.

How could that ever make sense?

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I get its an adaptation, and based solely on 1 hour of entertainment value, I say it's about an 8-9.

Some departures from the book I am *loving* -- for instance, the Tywin/Arya combo (I really do love these 2 together). Some departures I can't stand (Jaime killing the Lanister? Uh... No way). And if Qhorin doesn't give Jon the order, I'll throw my TV thru the window, but I think he IS going to give the order, just under different circumstances. So I think Jon's storyline is safe. (As far as Jaime's, tonight changed the whole character imo--family means something to Jaime, but it sure as hell didn't translate to screen).

However, here is what I want to know: All the things they are skipping, it makes me wonder if those elements will not be important in the series, and they know that. For instance: The boys hiding in the Winterfell crypts (and removing the swords), Jon's connection with Ghost, Jaime's redemption, etc.

In other words, are we finding out now that certain things I thought would be important in Books 6/7 are just throw-away details? I mean, I like the show, but compared to the books, it's just "eh" for me. Worth an hour of my time for sure, best show on TV for sure and I hope it's renewed for all 7-8 seasons--but I kinda feel like some things from future books are being spoiled by the way they are playing out the show.

ETA: I love Ygritte, too! The TV show improved my thoughts on her :-)

Edited by ipsuel
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Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I loved the subtle hint an Tywin sill being a ruthless bastard. He didn't feed Arya to be nice, it's because he thought the food may have been poisoned. He had just got through saying that someonoe was trying to kill him, had a suspicious glance at Arya, then made her eat the food she just brought him. I loved it.

Although I do think the Bran + Rickon storyline was handled quite poorly from a writing/directing standpoint. It was glaringly obvious that the bodies weren't thiers,

Edited by Nuttz
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Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I loved the subtle hint an Tywin sill being a ruthless bastard. He didn't feed Arya to be nice, it's because he thought the food may have been poisoned. He had just got through saying that someonoe was trying to kill him, had a suspicious glance at Arya, then made her eat the food she just brought him. I loved it.

Yep, and then he drove her out =P

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