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[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion


Ran
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I just had a thought - who is Karstark going to kill now?

he was in a perfect position to kill Alton (being a distant relative of the Lannisters) but that's out the window.

I do want to see how this gets handled - Robb's beheading of Karstark I thought was a pretty big moment for him and would be an especially interesting counterpoint to Theon's beheading of Cassell.

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For all the complaining, how good is Tywin/Arya?

Not a ship I support, personally, but different strokes...

...

I like their scenes. Dance really nails his Tywin; we just don't know what kind of person he is privately in the books. We only see him through the eyes of his children, all of which piss him off in one way or another. I don't think him getting on reasonably well with his cupbearer is out of character at all.

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Did you forget Jaime mixing semen with Cersei's period blood? Martin was plenty sexually graphic (and often completely outside the needs of the books). They have done it in different places, but they are quite true to him there.

To me it just feels like they´ve wanted to include as many nude women as possible. When will we see a man doing a full frontal nudity in every other episode?

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No chain? Really? There are not many episodes left and they have a ton of things to cover. The chain is a key reason why they are able to defeat stannis. Maybe it will be introduced next week? Who knows.

The execution in quarth was pretty cool and a good change but they killed the Spice King dude! He was the best addition to the books. His dialogue was great.

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However, here is what I want to know: All the things they are skipping, it makes me wonder if those elements will not be important in the series, and they know that. For instance: The boys hiding in the Winterfell crypts (and removing the swords), Jon's connection with Ghost, Jaime's redemption, etc.

In other words, are we finding out now that certain things I thought would be important in Books 6/7 are just throw-away details? I mean, I like the show, but compared to the books, it's just "eh" for me. Worth an hour of my time for sure, best show on TV for sure and I hope it's renewed for all 7-8 seasons--but I kinda feel like some things from future books are being spoiled by the way they are playing out the show.

This is my question too. The crypt stuff and some of the premonition dreams that different characters have seem to be pointing to particular conclusions that you can draw after reading everything, but if they're not in the show... Arya is supposed to be dreaming of Nymeria while she's at Harrenhal. Jon is supposed to see the wildling army via a Ghost dream. The House of the Undying prophecies will be interesting next week (if they happen next week...)

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Agree 100%, Thunder. I often hard on it (I refer to them as HBO moments). They are, however, true to style of the novels in that way (IMO) as Martin includes plenty of gratuitous sex scenes.

HBO's #1 show (by a mile) is True Blood. Which is a Vampire soap opera, with lots of graphic sex. I consider this the price to pay for getting such an awesome show.

Considering it's acceptance in the US (not much), we've gotten more than a fair number of dongs in the show.

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Pretty good episode overall. The show's main strength this season continues to be the acting performances and this episodes was one of the best in this respect. The changes in the Robb/Cat/Jaime plotline mostly worked, though Jaime killing his cousin was unnecessary and silly. The Qarth scene was pretty well done, Iain Glen gave another fantastic performance.

Main problem for me was the cringe worthy Jon - Ygritte scene. It would've been mildly amusing if she had made one or two jokes about his blue balls and left it at that, but instead she went on and on and on...Pointless and way overlong scene. Qhorin must be the most overrated ranger in the NW, BYW, since he couldn't find Jon. How hard would it be to track him in the snow?

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I don’t know how people can live with all this hate bubbling up inside them. If I hated something this much, I would shun it, not obsess over it and tear myself up inside. But they don’t seem to understand the damage they’re doing themselves. It’s really sickening to watch.

All scenes with Theon or the Lannisters in them completely ruled. With the exception of Tywin and Arya, which was excellent, the best scenes’ dialogue was the stuff lifted right from the book. My goodness Charles Dance has a deep voice! I think he’s lowering it to convey command strength. It works.

I’m not sure whether the actress playing Dany is just weak, or whether the dialogue they’ve written for her is weak. Something wasn’t clicking for me there.

I really love that Rickon got a few lines.

The only nudity was a man’s backside being painted by Quaithe. And not a particularly attractive backside, either, despite her artistic efforts. ;}

I can’t figure out the arrangement between Xaro and the warlocks. I mean, plotwise I don’t have a tremendous problem with it. I just wonder what the actual mechanics of the deal could have been, the who gets what exchange.

One thing about Pyat Pree’s reduplicative antics: they’ve saved on actors’ salaries to play other warlocks. ;}

It’s too bad Tyrion has lost his chain.

I miss Davos.

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Agree 100%, Thunder. I often hard on it (I refer to them as HBO moments). They are, however, true to style of the novels in that way (IMO) as Martin includes plenty of gratuitous sex scenes.

HBO's #1 show (by a mile) is True Blood. Which is a Vampire soap opera, with lots of graphic sex. I consider this the price to pay for getting such an awesome show.

Considering it's acceptance in the US (not much), we've gotten more than a fair number of dongs in the show.

I understand your point about male nudity and I´ve also assumed that this is the reason. And I don´t mind sex scenes when they make sense, regardless of if they are in the books or not. I thought the Renly/Margaery scene was really well done and made alot of sense. It showed Renlys frustration and Margaerys pragmatism in ways that seemed true to the characters. However when Littlefinger is telling his masterplan to two random hookers who just happen to be having sex with eachother. I can´t help but think to myself: "what the f-ck?!"

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I'm more wondering what that look between Roose and Talisa/Jeyne -- I think Roose is noticing Robb being dragged around with his other head. Which is now starting to spin the wheels about the R&W and maybe sending a Raven to Ramsay.

I caught that too. I liked how they added that bit in there to help show Roose's side of it. nonetheless I was pretty much screaming at Robb through my TV the entire time.

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I really did enjoy the episode. Ygritte and Jon have a awesome dynamic although im not sure about the being captured (again) by wildlings part, wonder how the will weave the half-hand in. Also I'll bet Rattleshirts in that group or at least i hope.

The Jamie and Qarth changes are different but i think Dany will end up tripping balls and burning hearts in the House of the Undying and Jamie will be released by Cat to save Sansa (because she knows the Stark men will kill him or she gets word about Bran and Rickon at the beginning of next weeks episode) All in all its going the the end direction anyway.

Alas i cant imagine the feeling of the non reader audience to the closing scene. Must be a real WTF moment so i can only appreciate the cliffhanger in terms of the shock for them.

I give this episode 4 Jamie choke-outs out of 5.

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I think the Chain is gone, I said this last week. I realize that won't be popular here, but I am relieved. I found it stupid in book form and on film it would look horrible.

I think hinting at it being built, a few throw-away lines about the blacksmiths all being occupied by some secret order from the Hand could have been very easily inserted... and then in the midst of the battle when things seem to be turning against them, dramatic music showing the chains being cranked up, lifted into place, the looks of shock and then horror on the face of the Onion Knight and his captains and then Cersei or someone else turning to Tyrion to comment on 'so THAT'S what you've been working on'...

I honestly don't believe that we can have too many scenes where Tyrion shows how cleverness can be as effective in battle as it can be in political manipulations... it shows him as a dangerous man despite his stature, even on the battlefield.

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That look from Roose was him realizing that Robb is about to blow his Kinghood to pieces. He already knows Robb is honorable to the point of being very destructive (just like dad), and he see's Robb paying undue attention to this woman, and pushing aside his duties for her. He is a schemer and can put together pieces of a potential disaster and better start making plans in case it happens. Does he know he will marry her? No, but he sees him smitten and that he is putting her above his lords. Time to make preparations.

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