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[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion


Ran
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I mean the chain itself would look horrible. It makes no sense, and while you can get away with that in print, on film it's tough. More scenes with Tyrion scheming would be welcome here!

What is it about the chain that doesn't make any sense? Chains have been used to block ships from rivers for pretty much all of history. It's not something GRRM just made up.

Here's one example from the Revolutionary war: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_River_Chain and another from the American Civil war http://www.saveastory.com/travel/20080502_chain_across_the_mississippi_river.htm

There's countless others if you look for them.

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1: Is Tywin really as kind to Arya in the book? Do they even talk this much?

2: Do season 2 cover more than one book? I don´t know why I get that impression..

3: How long time would you guess have passed since the end of season 1? I have no idea how long time they spend in the camp between the battles, but it must be several weeks at least.

A1: Tywin and Arya never talk in the books and Tywin isnt really nice to anyone, that has been the point of contention for a lot of reader/viewers. Although in my opinion, I think Tywin is smart and knows what he is doing, he clearly knows shes a noble and just because he's a dick, doesn't mean he doesn't like conversation, especially when it always pertains to how much of a badass he is(all he ever does to arya is brag and tell her what to do.)

A2: season 2 is basically the second book, but they have taken some many more liberties this season as opposed to 1, that its really hard to say. the writers have said from the beginning, since the books were written from a POV perspective, its inevitable for some stuff from all books to run together. for example, at the end of season one, they were showing some stuff that was in book 2 with arya. there are tons of other examples. basically they are just trying to tell the story the best they can.

A3: it was my impression that no time really had "passed." like i said, since its written in the POV style, it really depends on the chapter youre reading, but they basically pick up where the other left off.

as far as cat releasing jaime without the news of the boys deaths. I re-watched the episode and they wrote it in a way that made sense. When cat walks up jaime says something along the lines of "you came to see me on my last night alive" and the guards specifically tell cat that he wont last the night, brienne also notes it. I think it makes sense for her to release him on the pretense that he is worthless dead, so she might as well try to get something. i also think that she might have cut off his hand, since its entirely possible that they cut out the brave companions completely, although i think it would be an injustice to brienne and jaime to not show them fight, it really said a lot about both characters IMO. this is my first post, my grammar is terrible, and im sorry.

Edited by timstanton
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My only problem with this episode is that it's very obvious that Bran and Rickon are alive still.

When you read ACOK for the first time I think GRRM did a good job putting doubt in your head and making you think that maybe they are really dead. I watched that episode with 2 of my friends who never read the books, and they both thought it was very obvious right away that Bran and Rickon were alive still.

Edited by Maester Hodor
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I haven't read this entire thread, so I apoligize if this has been discussed already. What do you guys think Tywin is up to with Arya? It's clear that he knows she's not a common girl ("If you're going to pose as lowborn..."). Who does he think she is? How many highborn noble Northern girls could there be running around who have need to pose as common boys? Does he know she had been bound for the Night's Watch before? Originally I thought he just took a liking to her because she was smart; now I think he knows he has something of value, but I can't figure out why he'd let her have the run of the castle if he thought she could be used. Even if she were only a minor lord's daughter, I doubt Tywin would let the opportunity to collect a ransom escape. Could Tywin recognize her as a Stark? She *is* supposed to be the spitting image of Lyanna.

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the fact that they have possibly omitted the chain annoys me because i think it really speaks to tyrion winning the battle of blackwater. I am hoping that it is going to be something that comes up this week and it will have been something tyrion had been working on for a while in secret. :dunno:

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I haven't read this entire thread, so I apoligize if this has been discussed already. What do you guys think Tywin is up to with Arya? It's clear that he knows she's not a common girl ("If you're going to pose as lowborn..."). Who does he think she is? How many highborn noble Northern girls could there be running around who have need to pose as common boys? Does he know she had been bound for the Night's Watch before? Originally I thought he just took a liking to her because she was smart; now I think he knows he has something of value, but I can't figure out why he'd let her have the run of the castle if he thought she could be used. Even if she were only a minor lord's daughter, I doubt Tywin would let the opportunity to collect a ransom escape. Could Tywin recognize her as a Stark? She *is* supposed to be the spitting image of Lyanna.

i think its possible that he knows she is arya and knows her value. maybe littlefinger (who i think knew) told him. i think its possible that arya will find out that tywin knows who she is and it might lead to her eventual departure from harrenhall? i am intrigued by this storyline none the less.

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I like the changes to the Dany story line, which was boring in the books. I think that stripping her of her extended family is moving her from words to action.

I find the changes to the Jon story line a little troubling as it just seems to be leading up to his sympathy for the oppressed free folk when he remains a brother at heart throughout, but found the Ygritte scenes charming.

I am operating on the theory that Talisa is a Lannister spy: her talk with Rob was at the strategy table. On the other hand, it seems like he might be winning her over.

Love watching all of the scenes with Arya and Tywin, but feel they are off track.

I did like Cersei's speech to Sansa, which seems to indicate to me that Cersei knows that Joffrey is a losing cause.

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One thing I didn't like was Shae pulling a knife on the handmaiden; that's just dumb.

Indeed, what was the point of that? Even with the Hound, how would that ever have been effective? Have to assume it will expose her to Cersei and perhaps Cersei beats her rather than Alayaya?

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I liked this one better than last week's, but I really wish I could like it more. So loved the first season, but this one is just too much for 10 episodes. Way to much. The writers are leaving out threads in the books that really suck the flavor out of the story. First, the crypts were already mentioned- maybe not major in itself but it combined an important set of details. One of the coolest things IMO of the whole escape sequence was having the two dire wolves go off and leave a bunch of confusing paths for Theon and friends to run around chasing. So now it's like Theon actually just gives up chasing them down even though they are on horses? OK- pretty lame, though it makes him killing the Miller's kids looks even more cruel and pointless I admit.

And what is up with Jon? Seriously, where the F is Ghost!? He's with him the entire time he's beyond the wall, save for hunting for a few hours! The only time he's separated a bit is because he has to climb up that huge cliff, which didn't happen in the show anyway. He's definitely with him by the time he meet's Rattleshirt. Maybe Ghost will be another surprise appearance in the nick of time but it doesn't show much of the connection they have, whcih by then in novel is only getting deeper.

Actually the whole Ygritte thing is kind of annoying in general. She doesn't seem that tough, speaks too well, and Jon looks like an idiot letting her escape twice. And again, the rest of the rangers surely would have tracked them down and met up way before a whole day had gone by.

I still don't really get the stolen dragons thing either, though it seems likely the story line will be resolved pretty much the same way it did in the book I guess.

I don't mind the Tywin/Arya thing that much, though she seems to be getting less clever minute by minute. Now she's bragging the to leader of all she hates about her history knowledge, and yet expects to be taken for a mason's daughter? OK.... I forget who got that speech about My Lord/M'lord. was it actually her, or someone else? And why do we never get to see her sword (Needle work) training in secret as it mentions maybe 100 times in the books? It's key to her thirst for vengeance and hatred for what's happened to her and her family. I still like seeing her thread but it's not as interesting.

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What bothers me is that people are shocked that an adaptation of a book made changes from the source material. I don't care about people talking about it, but the people who are acting apalled or shocked over it is a bit much.

You're absolutely right. If Dany had hatched winged badgers instead of dragons, well, that's just part of the adaptation. Deal with it. :rolleyes:

I don't know when you came to this series, but some of us have been with this story and characters for most of our adult lives. I first read Game and Clash 13 years ago. I eagerly anticipated Storm coming out and waited every agonizing year for Feast and then Dance. I've known the story and characters since I was 19 years old, have read the books countless times - I literally have lost track of how many times. At least once a year, and that's even after Feast and my disappointment in GRRM's dicking around.

So seeing something as jarring (and in my opinion - stupid) as Jon taking Ygritte captive and then himself getting captured by the Wildlings is something I'm fucking entitled to be shocked and appalled about. I like some changes, I love a few others, and haven't been bothered by any others. Except this one. It's dumb. And I have every right to come here and express that. So does anyone else no matter what gripe or opinion they have.

In closing, piss off with the "durr adaptation durr you can't complain here because you not fan if you complain durrrrrr"

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Jon and Ygritte wandering all over the place for the sake of some nice scenery and endless childish sex talk. Meaningless filler. And Ghost has conveniently disappeared.

I

I never really know how to feel after the episodes with all the unneccessary additions and scenes and then they go and have Jon and Ygritte traipsing around with NO GHOST??? My poor husband watches with me and I go off on a tangent. About Ghost!!!!

It just seems so trivial with all the other wackyness that is going on.

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"That way, Jaime wouldn't have been off-screen for

5 full episodes

."

He's been in a prison the whole time... what kind of scenes would you have liked?

Read the rest of my post re: bumping up the escape attempt a few episodes.

Rather than putting all 3 of Jaime's scenes into this episode, and rather than Joffrey & Da Hors, Jaime's escape attempt could've come in an earlier ep. For example.

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I have some problems with the adaption especially concerning Robb as he was my fav in the book but on the whole i love the show. Will talk more about it when have time maybe

just want to add I think i have a crush on Ygritte.....she is sexy.

And i get a big smile on my face whenever Hodor says "Hodor". Love the way he says it

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does anyone know if the brotherhood with out banners are going to get any screen time? dondarion was in season 1 and they have mentioned them three times now. why would they do that if they are going to omit them? anyone have any insider knowledge?

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True, some changes are necessary, some are fine, and some even add good stuff to the story; some changes are frivilous, stupid and pointless. And those are the ones I rail against.

For example, I had no problem with them consolidating the scene where Arya frees Jaqen, Yoren is killed, and Arya & Gendry are taken captive and sent to Harrenhal. In the book, nothing of huge significance happens while Arya, Gendry & Co are on the run before taken by the Mountain's gang, so why not get them on to Harrenhal that much quicker?

I do, however, have a problem with Ros the non!canon whore sucking up valuable screentime, when we already have precious little of it to go around.

I have a problem with Joffrey having whores beat each other just to show us how ZOMG!EVYL he is, when we just saw him have Sansa stripped and beaten in the middle of the Hall. He's a douche. We get it.

What's infuriating about things like that, to me, is that Jaime's canon!escape attempt could have been a quick scene included in that episode, instead of Joffrey's nonsense. That way, Jaime wouldn't have been off-screen for 5 full episodes.

My $.02.

Can't disagree with any of this. I could add to it, certainly, but my overall issue is theremoval of things from the book that I loved and that I consider important to make room for the addition of things that, at this point, seem superfluous and out of step with the rest of the series that adheres more closely to the book.

Its not a matter of thinking 'Jaime/Littlefinger/Cersei didn't say that', its a matter of thinking that 'Jaimie/Littlefinger/Cersei wouldn't have said that'.

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does anyone know if the brotherhood with out banners are going to get any screen time? dondarion was in season 1 and they have mentioned them three times now. why would they do that if they are going to omit them? anyone have any insider knowledge?

The Brotherhood don't make an appearance until SoS so I don't think we'll see them this season.

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does anyone know if the brotherhood with out banners are going to get any screen time? dondarion was in season 1 and they have mentioned them three times now. why would they do that if they are going to omit them? anyone have any insider knowledge?

I think they'll have to bring them in at some point. Lady Stoneheart needs followers. Actually, without Dondarion there can't be a Lady Stoneheart at all can there?

Edited by Stanmore
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"I think they'll have to bring them in at some point. Lady Stoneheart needs followers. Actually, without Dondarion there can't be a Lady Stoneheart at all can there?"

100% true. i guess i should have clarified, I didn't really mean this season particularly. I am hoping they get a full fleshed story, as it was one of my favorite things in all the books. I also hope that season 3 or 3.5 or 4 end with the reveal of zombie cat like in SoS, that was an awesome thing to read.

Edited by timstanton
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Just saw the episode. So far I was happy with the way they were doing things but now it's getting out of hand. It feels like the plot barely moved. I cringed many times at changes and how the episode seemed a big Lannister-charm offensive at times. So far the changes had been okay with me but right now some of them just seem irreversible to me. How is Daeny going to meet Xaro Xoan Daxos again later when he already betrays her like this now? Not, I guess. Okay then. Wasn't the way Jon joined up with the wildlings pivotal to his story? How is he going to win their trust now? Jeez. Jaime admitted he f-d Cersei, what the hell is going on? Cersei is admitting Joffry is a monster, what the hell is going on? Kit Harington has destroyed the image of Jon I had, I'm sorry, I tried to like him but he's a disappointment, although I realize the writers are to blame for this rather than the actor. The Mountain looks ridiculous! Bonus points for a couple of good laughs involving Brienne though: the quote already listed above when Cat says her name, how sternly she took Jaime's remarks, and most of all her conversation with the announcement guy who burst into the tent. When she bit 'man' at him I really lost it. So eh, I won't give up hope 'cos this is only the first episode that made me cringe but I hope the next episode will ring a few more bells rather than fall into irrelevant dialogue that isn't based on anything.

Edited by StannisandDaeny
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