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[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion


Ran
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Tywin is willing to kill 20 soldiers of his and burn villages etc, but not question his cupbearer?

COMPLETELY ILLOGICAL, ARYA SHOULD BE NO. 1 SUSPECT

Is that a joke? Why in the seven hells would he suspect a little girl servant?

All the kids are aged-up, except, apparently, Sansa.

Sansa was aged up too... Edited by Morrigan
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I really hope they still give the Halfhand a chance to give his last order to Jon. How else will they justify his turncloaking?

I'm still confused if the change in circumstances for Cat's releasing Jaime makes her more or less of an idiot. Instead of only Cat getting the surprise (married Robb), Robb will have a shocker when he gets back from the Crag. Also, knowing that Robb's bannermen are very much aware of, and despise, Talisa, why hasn't she been assaulted yet? Raped, harassed, verbally abused, whichever. She's a "foreign bitch" getting the attention of war-torn men. Something should have hapened by now.

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I really hope they still give the Halfhand a chance to give his last order to Jon. How else will they justify his turncloaking?

I'm still confused if the change in circumstances for Cat's releasing Jaime makes her more or less of an idiot. Instead of only Cat getting the surprise (married Robb), Robb will have a shocker when he gets back from the Crag. Also, knowing that Robb's bannermen are very much aware of, and despise, Talisa, why hasn't she been assaulted yet? Raped, harassed, verbally abused, whichever. She's a "foreign bitch" getting the attention of war-torn men. Something should have hapened by now.

I watched the promo for next week and the Halfhand is imprisoned with Jon so I guess we'll get his order that way. Also, both Robb and Catelyn get their surprises (albeit it's in SoS not AoK). I think Catelyn is releasing Jaime because she knows with Robb at the Crag and Karstark looking bloodthirsty that Jaime (and thus her daughters) were screwed cuz Karstark was pretty much ready to murder Jaime.

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Three episodes in the row without Ros! If I didn't know Martin was writing Blackwater I would be expecting they would make up for this oversight by having the entire battle narrated to us by Ros as she looks out a window getting fucked from behind.

Doggone it, I really wish folks would use spoiler tags! It’s past my bedtime, and now that image is going to be hounding my dreams all night long. And you know she’ll be on a leash, too, with studded doggy collar and everything.

You may disbelieve, but I think you’re barking up the wrong tree by thinking Martin wouldn’t pull whatever bone out of his backside that is asked of him. Not even the Great Master himself could overcome The Problem of Ros, so why should you get off any easier?

D&D chart out each seasonal decalogue, then hand off individual writing assignments to their kennel of well-heeled writers to produce the requisite doggerel.

If George’s assignment included an episode frameworking of Ros dogging it the whole battle long in supervisory sexposition, make no bones about it: you know he’d really dig it. You know they’d never let him off his leash long enough to chase squirrels.

Ros baby, you fetching narratrix of the Blackwater you, here we come! Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrruffu!!!

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Book interests are entirely different than HBO show interests as far as revelations... With thousands of pages we have more than enough time to worry about eye color and who a character really is and all these different mysteries to solve. There is no time to have a show progress in such a short amount of time and then expect it to benefit the viewer experience by including all these flashbacks and sidestories (sidestories with regard to the show because fact is we would never have enough time to be able to really enjoy the results). For those saying its not enough to say its an adaptation I just disagree. I agree with the frustration because there is SO much I would love to see on screen after my experience with the books, but I know the time allotted would never accommodate that notion. But the fact is a TV show has to have added elements to attract a wider demographic for this shows survival. Its not a book where you can survive with less readers and still finish the series... its a TV show that without attracting more and more people from all walks of life we will never come close to seeing the on-screen ending.

Some changes just have to be made because we have no time for 20 POVs. Look how rushed it looked having what... 5 POVs in an episode? Some things have to be sacrificed. And look how boring Dany's storyline is in the books to the point where people almost murder eachother going insane on how little progress she makes so how would the writers of the show expect to have that little happen and keep viewers with a character like Dany people are now so enthralled with? They had to add story to her world or else we would all hang ourselves watching those scenes. And whats wrong with making some twists so that we, as readers, can have the potential luxury of watching an episode and not knowing exactly whats going to happen every step of the way. I love not always knowing where theyre going. Who the hell wanted to go see The Sixth Sense if somebody had the shocker ruined for them that Bruce Willis is really dead? The show is a twist on a phenomenal backing story. I dont want to have a checklist of 100 things and cross them off in order 1 after the order when they happen, I want the possibility of new things happening for us.

Sadly I feel like the whole world of flashbacks and hidden meanings/prophecies is just way too much for a limited TV airing to convey so we will just miss out on most of it until the books address it all. Theres no care whatsoever about Jons mother on the show or figuring out the truth of a lot of things we go through in the books. It sucks but its expected.

As for what happens with Alton, who cares? He was a made up character anyway. And it was NOT out of character of Jamie in the slightest bit. Jamie is an arrogant, selfish prick lol. He did as is expected for his own survival. With Cersei saying Joff is a monster basically but then saying oh yeah why would she call if he is killed? Theres a little bit of a difference between saying yeah my son has turned into a sadistic a*hole and saying I dont care if my son is murdered.

The negative here I feel like is just the whole season, we came into this season expecting some greatness about the direwolves.... but where the hell are they? Wheres the warging concept? We could certainly benefit from using more time on showing these storylines..

In conclusion... enough anger that the show isnt as epic as the books.. There is not enough time for the epic to be told on screen, and never will be. The second we accept this is the second we can sit back and just enjoy the show. I dont recall hearing people care about the variations to X-Men or Avengers as venomously as ASOIAF readers seem to care about the differences here. Accept the very definition of "BASED ON". My main concern here is making sure GRRM finishes our books. These shows are a great way to get me through my time waiting. Be happy guys... its not like the writers butchered the show like Eragon got butchered ruining that phenomenal series. This is a great show.

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Don't get me wrong a lot of the changes I have really liked and have found entertaining but am I the only who wished they pulled more dialogue straight from the book like last season? There hasn't been as much and there are some really good lines they could have used but didn't.

Edited by Warden of the North121
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Tyrion's chain has to be a secret or it's not much of a trap. As I said, it's fine to gloss over these things in print because it's no big deal and it's a fun little scheme. However, when you put it to film, you see the massive undertaking this thing would be and it becomes silly.

I looked up that Constantinople Chain (thanks btw, it was pretty cool). It's about 800m in length according to the map on Wikipedia (and it was floated for support). Again not close to the size that Tyrion's would have to be. But really, the reality of this isn't my main problem It's fantasy, dragons fly, warlocks get the Loki magic trick and guys who look like me get hot babes. My (expected) issue with it was going to be how it looked on film. Ships in battle are incredibly expensive to film, now add green fire (CGI can handle that). With the money they are dealing with, it's either going to be a cheap stage Prop (the 10 ft length/ Godzilla's hand prop), or a monster CGI shot which needs to interact with these expensive ships. If you had Peter Jackson's budget for The Hobbit, it would probably look cool. Here I think it wouldn't. Something like this isn't something you can half-ass.

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Not like the dummies they used in the show :D I don't know, they just looked silly to me, swinging in the wind and all.

Not like the dummies they used in the show :D I don't know, they just looked silly to me, swinging in the wind and all.

I wonder if their resemblance to the murdered men on the bridge at the Battle of Fallujah was coincidental. I recall how strikingly horrible this was in RL.

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I was completely astonished to hear that. I wonder what it portends?

I dont think we will see Balon Swann in the show, so for me that was just a little tribute to the character and something to please us book-readers.

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Ships in battle are incredibly expensive to film, now add green fire (CGI can handle that). With the money they are dealing with, it's either going to be a cheap stage Prop (the 10 ft length/ Godzilla's hand prop), or a monster CGI shot which needs to interact with these expensive ships. If you had Peter Jackson's budget for The Hobbit, it would probably look cool. Here I think it wouldn't. Something like this isn't something you can half-ass.

Agreed that you can’t let it be half-assed. Remember that the showrunners went back and asked HBO for another 15% of funding. Also remember that they spent an entire month filming Episode 9, “Blackwater”. Put that all together, and I almost dare to hope that it won’t be half-assed after all.

I was thinking that The Hobbit wasn’t all that much better endowed financially than Game of Thrones, but quick napkin calculations say I was wrong. Peter Jackson has $500 million for perhaps six to eight hours of show. David and Dan have $69 for ten hours of show. That means PJ has about the same amount of money for one hour as D&D have for their full season, so call it ten times as much.

That’s not peanuts.

On the other hand, if we got ten ten-hour seasons once all were said and done, that’d be a hundred hours of show. The price per hour will still be only ten percent of Jackson’s, but there will be incredibly more show as far as viewing time goes, and in the end, Game of Thones will indeed end up spending more money than The Hobbit will, which goes back to my original idea of The Hobbit not being all that pricier. It is when looked at per hour of viewing, but not necessarily in the aggregate.

Edited by CrypticWeirwood
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And I'll say this again - name a poster that has said they require a 100% adaption. Because different posters disagree about different points does not mean that anyone requires or expects a 100% verbatim TV show.

The only 100% correct adaptation I have seen is Silence of the Lambs. that was AWEsome.

2001:A Space Odyssey is close, but technically not an adaptation since the book and movie were done together.

I am always grateful when the movie (or TV show) doesnt completely hash the book.

Exhibit A: The Natural.

I am happy that the main points of the book are there and the talent is so good - writing, acting, etc, etc.

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Tyrion's chain has to be a secret or it's not much of a trap. As I said, it's fine to gloss over these things in print because it's no big deal and it's a fun little scheme. However, when you put it to film, you see the massive undertaking this thing would be and it becomes silly.

Remember in the novel Davos suspects something?

He wanted Imry Florent to send some of Salladhor Saan's swift ships to scout the harbor for traps and things like that.

Like French Knights Florent and his captains voted Davos down.

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I have nitpicked some other stuff, and I wish they were doing more with some of Tyrion's other machinations, but the chain thing didn't become cool to me until its purpose finally became evident very close to or during the battle itself in the book - before that I just didn't get why Tyrion was having the blacksmiths waste their time making all these links and I was sort of annoyed by the repeated references to it. As a result, I am sort of relieved they seem to be leaving it for the Blackwater episode itself, although I would liked to have seen more about the wildfire preparations, since its value is more intuitive and also important when it comes to the Aerys was going to burn down King's Landing revelation (has the show told us that yet? I don't think so) . If the chain isn't in the actual Blackwater episode itself, however, I will rant and rave and throw a fit, because I thought the river of fire with the chain mostly trapping the ships in was absolutely awesome.

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Maybe Tywin knows Arya is Arya and he wants to keep her around as a prize for the RW. However, he doesn't want to drag her all around through battle so he leaves her in the care of his bannermen figuring she won't escape. What Tywin doesn't know is that she's crafty and has Jaqen to help. Hopefully weasel soup is intact. I read an interview with Maisie Williams where she said she was looking forward.

They are not cutting that whole thing with Qhorin so relax! People thought last week that they wouldn't have the Theon killing Bran and Rickon fake out. They aren't going to take out something that important. They better keep Ghost in that scene though!

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This is really nitpicky but one thing the books and show get wrong is the amount Sansa bleeds during her period. The average amount of blood over the course of an entire period is 1/8 of a cup. Do men seriously think we hemorrage once a month? This was also an issue in Carrie. Men should consult Judy Blume first when writing a puberty scene!

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I guess so. I was thrown by her first flowering, but I guess it isn't unheard of for a girl to have it later than the average age.

Since she has already had her telarche (initial breast development), it would be only be a diagnosis of delayed puberty if she had not had her menarche (first period) by 16 years of age. How old is she supposed to be on the show?

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