[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion

[Jolene Brown]

I find Cat super frustrating at times, but Michelle Fairley is doing an amazing job bringing her to life, in all her frustratingness, wish she was nominated. I would have her and Sophie Turner, I think, despite being a longtime Lena Headey fan (I think she's good too, I just think Fairley and Turner are standouts right now).

Edited May 15, 2012 by Jolene Brown

[wotad]

i love this series didnt read the books but its amazing , i know people must be unhappy at some changes from series to books but some are good and some are probs bad for people who read the books but just enjoy the good moments and carry on watching this amazing well casted series

Edited May 15, 2012 by wotad

[wotad]

I find Cat super frustrating at times, but Michelle Fairley is doing an amazing job bringing her to life, in all her frustratingness, wish she was nominated. I would have her and Sophie Turner, I think, despite being a longtime Lena Headey fan (I think she's good too, I just think Fairley and Turner are standouts right now).

Emilia Clarke and Lena Headey,Sophie Turner, and Michelle Fairley are all good but i hope Emilia wins

[The Pretty Good John]

2) Tywin-or-you-die-or-you-give-Arya-your-dinner - A man who would have a full barracks of women rape a woman of lower class to prove to his son that all women of lower class are whores in that they want a lord for their money -- this type of man would not give a serving girl his meal. He would certainly not COMPARE his daughter to a serving wench.

Isn't is pretty clear at this point that he knows she was born and raised in a noble house? He also knew she was from the North.

He might not have met her before the war, but he certainly knew Ned from King's Landing at the end of Robert's rebellion. It's also entirely possible that he saw Ned's father, brother and/or Lyanna before their deaths. They've gone out of their way in the series to tell us how much Arya has "the look" of the Starks -- from Yhorrin (sp?) saying that to Ned to Ned telling her how much she looked like Lyanna.

It might have dawned on him that this 10 year old noble born Northern girl who looks like the Starks running around 500 miles from home is the same missing Stark girl they're looking for (and might be able to exchange for Jaime). He is ceratinly much more familiar and friendly with her now -- after he had a conversation we did not hear with Littlefinger that began with Littlefinger describing his conversation with Catlin about exchanging Arya and Sansa for Jaime. If Tywin didn't know who she was at first, I bet he knows by the time he gives her his mutton.

[Sun]

I'm terribly sorry to ask this, if it has been asked before (don't want to read 28 pages!) But during the thirteen scene where Pyat Pree slits everyone's throats, did he kill Xaro as well? because right after that scene Xaro was nowhere to be seen.

No he didn't. Pyat only killed the members of the 13 seated at the table. Pyat is in league with Xaro, who is now effectively the new king of Qarth.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Sun

[Sun]

Double post.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Sun

[Ghost714]

Isn't is pretty clear at this point that he knows she was born and raised in a noble house? He also knew she was from the North.

He might not have met her before the war, but he certainly knew Ned from King's Landing at the end of Robert's rebellion. It's also entirely possible that he saw Ned's father, brother and/or Lyanna before their deaths. They've gone out of their way in the series to tell us how much Arya has "the look" of the Starks -- from Yhorrin (sp?) saying that to Ned to Ned telling her how much she looked like Lyanna.

It might have dawned on him that this 10 year old noble born Northern girl who looks like the Starks running around 500 miles from home is the same missing Stark girl they're looking for (and might be able to exchange for Jaime). He is ceratinly much more familiar and friendly with her now -- after he had a conversation we did not hear with Littlefinger that began with Littlefinger describing his conversation with Catlin about exchanging Arya and Sansa for Jaime. If Tywin didn't know who she was at first, I bet he knows by the time he gives her his mutton.

Does Tywin know that Cersei lost Arya? I didn't think so, so I don't see Tywin making that connection, because he believes Arya to be in Kings Landing.

[StarkWard]

Does Tywin know that Cersei lost Arya? I didn't think so, so I don't see Tywin making that connection, because he believes Arya to be in Kings Landing.

I also remember TV LF telling Tywin "a proposition from Lady Stark about her DAUGHTERS" right after Arya left the room. Note the plural. I don't think Cersei wanted it known that Arya was missing, so she probably instructed LF as such.

[Ghost714]

I also remember TV LF telling Tywin "a proposition from Lady Stark about her DAUGHTERS" right after Arya left the room. Note the plural. I don't think Cersei wanted it known that Arya was missing, so she probably instructed LF as such.

Exactly. I really do not think Tywin has been informed of Arya's escape. He certainly was not when Tyrion first got to Kings Landing, Tyrion says as much to Cersei when he first gets to the Capitol. Also, I imagine that Tyrion was trying to find Arya before Tywin finds out, and if Tyrion can't find her by the time Tywin learns the truth...well then, it was Cersei's fault for letting her escape.

[HouseLark]

Does Tywin know that Cersei lost Arya? I didn't think so, so I don't see Tywin making that connection, because he believes Arya to be in Kings Landing.

No he doesn't. If he did, he would have locked up this serving girl from the off just to satisfy a germ of a suspicion that she might be Arya Stark. He has figured out a lot and knows she's not a stonemason's daughter but as far as he is concerned, the Stark's are all accounted for. My guess is that it will dawn on him at one point, probably when he finally gets to King's Landing. Either that or there will be some action scene where Tywin finally hears of Arya's escape from KL just as she is going to make her escape from Harrenhall.

[boojam]

They've never said, but she was 12-13 in the book, I think. She seems 15-16 to me in the show, and the actress is 16. All the kids are aged-up from what they were in the books.

For various legal reasons due to child labor and adult content laws.

I , for one, wished , George had not used that middle ages, well pre 20th century , cultural norm in the novels.

[J_Crews]

She was 11 in the books and 13 in the show IIRC. She should be around 14 now.

According to the wiki, she was born in 286AL, making her of an age with Joffrey and 12 when Ned dies in 298AL. I would say she's closer to 15, going on 16, in the show, because Joffrey is clearly supposed to be 16 or so, and they're playing Arya as a 13-14 year old (Sansa is 2+ years older than her). They've never said specific ages on the show, but it isn't hard to see.

[StannisandDaeny]

So in the show Joffry is already ruling independently? If he's 16? I remember people made a rather big deal out of this in the book (like Tyrion thinking he'd better get the hell out of there before Joffry's 16), can't remember if it was mentioned in the show.

[J_Crews]

For various legal reasons due to child labor and adult content laws.

I , for one, wished , George had not used that middle ages, well pre 20th century , cultural norm in the novels.

For me, I just have to try suspend my cultural bias in order to enjoy it and not get creeped-out. Like you said, the way we think of age-appropriateness now is wholly a product of the last century. My great-grandmother was married to my great-grandfather when she was 12; family lore talks of her waiting for him to go to work to sneak and play with her dolls, which is sad by today's standards, but marrying young like that was perfectly normal back then. You gave daughters to men who could provide for a family, not boys.

Edited May 15, 2012 by J.S. Crews

[J_Crews]

So in the show Joffry is already ruling independently? If he's 16? I remember people made a rather big deal out of this in the book (like Tyrion thinking he'd better get the hell out of there before Joffry's 16), can't remember if it was mentioned in the show.

16 was age of majority in the book. Robb was 15 when AGoT started, 16 when named King in the North. They talk about Robert winning the throne 15 years ago. In the show, they say 17 years ago, meaning, in the show, Robb is 17 when AGoT started, 18 when named King in the North. Seems to me they've modernized the age of majority in the show's version of Westeros to 18, like we have it.

[Evamitchelle]

According to the wiki, she was born in 286AL, making her of an age with Joffrey and 12 when Ned dies in 298AL. I would say she's closer to 15, going on 16, in the show, because Joffrey is clearly supposed to be 16 or so, and they're playing Arya as a 13-14 year old (Sansa is 2+ years older than her). They've never said specific ages on the show, but it isn't hard to see.

At the beginning of the first book Sansa is still 11. When Robert tells Ned he wants Joffrey and Sansa to marry he responds that : "Sansa is only eleven." Arya is 9 years old, Bran 7 and Rickon 3.

I'm pretty sure Arya is supposed to be 11-12 rather than 13-14 in the show, making Sansa 13-14. Bran is confirmed as 10 and Rickon at 6. The Game of Thrones wiki lists Sansa as 14 right now.

16 was age of majority in the book. Robb was 15 when AGoT started, 16 when named King in the North. They talk about Robert winning the throne 15 years ago. In the show, they say 17 years ago, meaning, in the show, Robb is 17 when AGoT started, 18 when named King in the North. Seems to me they've modernized the age of majority in the show's version of Westeros to 18, like we have it.

Robb was 14 in the first book and 15 when he became King in the North.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Evamitchelle

[Evamitchelle]

According to the wiki, she was born in 286AL, making her of an age with Joffrey and 12 when Ned dies in 298AL. I would say she's closer to 15, going on 16, in the show, because Joffrey is clearly supposed to be 16 or so, and they're playing Arya as a 13-14 year old (Sansa is 2+ years older than her). They've never said specific ages on the show, but it isn't hard to see.

Actually there's no need for speculation because I just remembered that Sansa's age is given right in the first episode of the series. Cersei asks her how old she is and Sansa answers that she's 13. Which means that she is now 14 and that Arya was probably 11 but now 12.

[The Last Dragon]

Loved the episode. Loved the history told, the mentioning of names, events dating back 100+ years. Made me smile. 'Loved the You know nothing Jon Snow'. Those little things need to be perfect for me to work, and it did beautifully. Don't care about the deviations, the show is perfect television, the acting is out of this world and it's clever and intelligent at times. Love it to be surprised at times.

And one actor is honoured far too less on this boards; Hodor. I just get all warm inside seeing that big man smile like a little child and say 'Hodor'. It's just perfection... Seeing the images in my head come to life. We are lucky people.

Edited May 15, 2012 by The Last Dragon

[legba11]

Hodor

[StannisandDaeny]

Like when she advised Robb not to send Theon back to the Iron Islands, or asked him to petition for peace with the Lannisters, or told him to ally himself with Renly or Stannis. Oh wait, Show Cat did none of those things. Show Cat is completely incapable to taking any initiative, she exists only to react to all the interesting stuff other characters do, to give us a POV into "important king stuff" and to remind the audience that good mothers stay at home.

That's sexism with a velvet glove right there. You're denying Cat is acting tough and holding her own in the face of Karstark and even making him back down (something 6 men with swords couldn't), managed to broker an agreement with Renly, is still at Robb's side playing an important role despite her losses, bravely telling Stannis and Renly off when they're bickering, taking initiative when she realizes Jaime is going to get killed and Robb isn't around to decide, making her choice smarter than it was in the books because it is a logical decision rather than an emotional one, telling Robb the whole Greyjoy idea was a bad plan rather than just sending Theon (again making her smarter than in the books, because, she was obviously right!) and reminding Robb of his duties when he's flirting with the medic and being irresponsible. She's not just some dumb woman in the show, far from it. To say otherwise is really an insult to the great actress who plays her so strongly. It's funny you should say that she's only there to point out a stereotype while she has Brienne the Badass at her side as the epitome of female badassery (who even bites back when called 'woman' demeaningly, something I don't recall her do in the book either) in almost every scene, lol.

Edited May 15, 2012 by StannisandDaeny