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[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion


Ran
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Jaime ,as he was being led away after being recaptured,to Cat "Why you've turned into a she-wolf in your old age.There's no more fish left in you".

ETA At least that's what I think I heard??

Edited by redriver
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Jaime ,as he was being led away after being recaptured,to Cat "Why you've turned into a she-wolf in your old age.There's no more fish left in you".

ETA At least that's what I think I heard??

Ah that makes sense, I couldn't catch the last part, I heard the she-wolf bit though :)

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It does happen fairly early in ACOK, but this subplot doesn't mature until well into book 3. But people are going to completely forget about Dontos if he never appears on screen. He was supposed to be there in the throne room scene where Sansa is beaten too.

I thought as much, I think the actor that plays Dontos is great too. Maybe Sansa's story arc for this season will end with the secret note, but then that would kind of throw off Sansa's parts during the battle of BW, unless ive got my timeline a little muddled here, i'm sure Sansa takes advantage of the commotion to escape to the godswood where it is revealed Dontos wrote the note. Also the whole Hound and his birdsong scene.

Welcome to the board!

I don't have the book in front of me now; but I think Sansa should have definitely met Ser Dontos in the godswood by now, or at least had the letter. By the time they get around to it in the show, viewers who haven't read the book will have forgotten who poor Dontos is.

Thanks for the welcome :D

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It does happen fairly early in ACOK, but this subplot doesn't mature until well into book 3. But people are going to completely forget about Dontos if he never appears on screen. He was supposed to be there in the throne room scene where Sansa is beaten too.

He actually was in the throne room, but he didn't do anything and didn't put a.. watermelonthing (?) over her head. If you look closely, you will see him.

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I thought as much, I think the actor that plays Dontos is great too. Maybe Sansa's story arc for this season will end with the secret note, but then that would kind of throw off Sansa's parts during the battle of BW, unless ive got my timeline a little muddled here, i'm sure Sansa takes advantage of the commotion to escape to the godswood where it is revealed Dontos wrote the note.

This happens earlier, the night she gets the note. There's indeed a commotion that Sansa take advantage of the first time, but I believe it was just a mob of angry people. She then starts going to the godswood regularly. I believe it's at the time of the Blackwater that Dontos gives her the hair net.

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He actually was in the throne room, but he didn't do anything and didn't put a.. watermelonthing (?) over her head. If you look closely, you will see him.

That's not exactly going to help non book readers is it.

Anyone watching with a non reader who guessed the Bran Rickon ruse straight away?

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That's not exactly going to help non book readers is it.

Anyone watching with a non reader who guessed the Bran Rickon ruse straight away?

No, of course it's not really helping. But he was there, that's all.

From what I hear; not many nonreaders guessed the Bran/Ricking ruse. GRRM killed Ned Stark, that was a HUGE surprise to every nonreaders so I guess they will think 'Okay, he has done it before, he's doing it again.' Especially because of Maester Luwin, that scene was beautifully done.

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It's a common way to mash up two words in fandoms.

But to what purpose? That’s what I fail to understand.

What special nuance is conveyed by using an old-school UUCP bang path over and above the sense conveyed by using the hyphen, space, or possessive form from standard orthographic convention?

In other words, what does “show!Arya” buy you that “show-Arya” or “show Arya” or the “show’s Arya” fails to provide? Sure, I suppose you can stack them just like any other bang path, having “1st-season!show!Arya” and such, but again this cries out for an explanation of what it buys you over using standard typography.

Noun-noun compounds, whether hyphenated or not, have been around in English forever, although the unhyphenated version has admittedly increased in popularity over the last century or so.

This innovation must be filling some gap that would not be filled by using standard orthography, or it wouldn’t exist. If not, it would be — well, twee. You know, precious.

What extra semantic is carried by using old-school bang paths like this? I feel like I’ve been left out of the club. Please explain your secret handshake! ⦅;⁍}>⋯

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No, of course it's not really helping. But he was there, that's all.

From what I hear; not many nonreaders guessed the Bran/Ricking ruse. GRRM killed Ned Stark, that was a HUGE surprise to every nonreaders so I guess they will think 'Okay, he has done it before, he's doing it again.' Especially because of Maester Luwin, that scene was beautifully done.

Really? I found that the bodies flung up were less than convincing. Perhaps having something more grotesque would have done the trick , maybe something more personal as well. Maybe something Bran or Rickon used to carry . Because to be frank if anyone has watched any other television show , any off screen death of major characters does not really prove to be true . Thought they could have done better with that scene in particular

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Actually there's no need for speculation because I just remembered that Sansa's age is given right in the first episode of the series. Cersei asks her how old she is and Sansa answers that she's 13. Which means that she is now 14 and that Arya was probably 11 but now 12.

When does she say her age? At the feast? I had forgotten that somehow. :bang:

Good catch.

Edited by J.S. Crews
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Jaime's sudden vulnerable moment with his cousin was pointless to me. I would have rather them spend that extra 4 minutes or so on his talk with Catelyn so we could get the backstory on how Brandon and Lord Rickard died and how he really became the Kingslayer and how the rebellion started.

1. The TV audience doesn't need a double dose of how Brandon and Rickard died - Jaime has already told that tale to Ned in Season 1, so we do not need to waste any time on it in Season 2. Especially if Jaime is also going to tell that story to Brienne in Season 3.

2. The Jaime/ Alton conversation was very good, especially when you listen to what Jaime was saying about youthful dreams and ideals. The dialogue was not just a set-up for the murder, but also a great insight into Jaime's own character and how the knight of his boyhood dreams has now become "Kingslayer".

I know there are often complaints whenever an episode shows 'slow' scenes with just dialogue, but often the key action or character developent IS through dialogue scenes. A TV show cannot rely on extensive exposition or POV memories as in GRRM's books, so that sometimes, lengthy sections of dialogue play a critical role. You just have to pause, listen and hear what is being said!

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Robb was 14 in the first book and 15 when he became King in the North.

The North must have different standards then, otherwise Robb would require a Regent to rule in his place until he turned 16. Either way, my point was that they've aged he and Joffrey up in the show. Richard Madden is 26 and looks it; calling him 18 is a real stretch -- calling him 15 is beyond any hope of suspending reality, imo. Plus, they clearly say in Season 1 dialogue that Robert's Rebellion was 17 years ago, as opposed to 15 years ago in the book. Joffrey is, likewise, played by a college-age actor and looks it. I guess I can buy him as being about 14 to keep him of an age with Sansa, but it's a stretch. He looks and acts 16-17.

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Joffrey is too old in the show for there to be a Regent over him. They pretend that Cersei is the Regent, and also pretend that his word outranks hers. That makes no sense whatsoever.

I'm telling you, they've upped the age of majority from 16 to 18, like in the modern world, to appease TV viewers who would freak over kids going to war, etc.. It's the only way things make sense.

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This is really nitpicky but one thing the books and show get wrong is the amount Sansa bleeds during her period. The average amount of blood over the course of an entire period is 1/8 of a cup. Do men seriously think we hemorrage once a month? This was also an issue in Carrie. Men should consult Judy Blume first when writing a puberty scene!

Yeah, AVERAGE person, not every person. Some women bleed more than others. And first period might be differents from later ones. My first lasted for 7 days and I bled a lot more than ever after that. So no, show didn't get that wrong at all as well as it didn't get it wrong for Sansa getting her moonblood later than usual. Not only do some girls menstruate late naturally but there can be other reasons, too. For example severe stress, phycal or psychological, can alter woman's menstrual cycle and it's quite obvious that Sansa is very anxious and stressed in her situation.

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That's not exactly going to help non book readers is it.

Anyone watching with a non reader who guessed the Bran Rickon ruse straight away?

Yep, my girlfriend immediately caught it. It was poorly executed, but I also think it's because of the medium. Whenever something happens offscreen, you know something's up. Plus the corpses looked superfake, like cheap strawmen I'd say

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I'm telling you, they've upped the age of majority from 16 to 18, like in the modern world, to appease TV viewers who would freak over kids going to war, etc.. It's the only way things make sense.

Then how can Joffrey’s word overrule his own regent’s? It cannot. See the problem? Joffrey could not have Cersei executed for striking him. It is both her right and duty to do so: her right as his regent, and her duty as his mother. The Mad Kinglet has been paying too much attention to the “where power resides” puzzle.

Edited by CrypticWeirwood
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