[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion

[StannisandDaeny]

I thought we were done with each other but apparently you have a bone to pick with me.

1. Way to miss the point. Yeah insults are meant to offend, that's their purpose, we're clear on that. The point is that men should not be insulted when compared to women, since there's nothing wrong with being a woman.

2. It's not just English. Most of the worst French insults translate to bitch/whore/motherfucker. Mandarin also has quite a few choice insults revolving around mothers and vaginas. Sometimes both at the same time.

3. Women can be sexist too. I thought you knew that already since you've accused me of being sexist several times before.

4. I never said I wanted to ban anything.

5. Nice to know minorities should get a stick out of their collective asses.

6. And calm down a bit maybe ? At this point I feel like my existence offends you.

1. Unless you're a man. Which is why it is also common to compare women to men when insulting him, like people accusing them of having beards. I just don't think people who are mean by default should be used to judge the rest of society as a whole.

2. See above.

3. I don't take anyone's gender for granted over the internet. You're all ambiguous creatures made of walls of texts, screennames and avatars to me.

4. So you approve of people making stuff that offends you. Okay, each to their own.

5. I respect minorities when they address existing problems in society, not when they get offended at everything and anything. While we're discussing something Arya-the-fictional-tv-character said, some woman is being forced to wear a Burkha.

6. I'm actually amused by your existence, to be completely honest.

Edited May 17, 2012 by StannisandDaeny

[DragonSpawn]

When Theon and co arrive to that farmer's house with the two orphans...what was it that one of Theon's men, forget his name, picked off the ground?

Dagmer has some of the nuts Rickon was eating - probably what they were getting the hounds to sniff and track... i don't think he found them there.. he had them with him... but the idea of using the millers kids to prevent Theon losing face presented itself and he dropped the hint to Theon...

[Evamitchelle]

1. Unless you're a man. Which is why it is also common to compare women to men when insulting him, like people accusing them of having beards. I just don't think people who are mean by default should be used to judge the rest of society as a whole. 2. See above. 3. I don't take anyone's gender for granted over the internet. You're all ambiguous creatures made of walls of texts, screennames and avatars to me. 4. So you approve of people making stuff that offends you. Okay, each to their own. 5. I respect minorities when they address existing problems in society, not when they get offended at everything and anything. While we're discussing something Arya-the-fictional-tv-character said, some woman is being forced to wear a Burkha. 6. I'm actually amused by your existence, to be completely honest.

In short : you respect minorities, as long as they don't annoy you. It's their fault they're oppressed because they don't focus their attention where you think they should. And if oppression manifests itself in minor ways they shouldn't talk about it because there are poor Muslim Women being Oppressed as we speak. And you find my existence funny. Good for you. Unfortunately for me I don't find sexism funny. I'm gonna stop here. No need to bother everyone else with a meaningless back-and-forth.

[True Northerner]

Requiring someone ELSE to read something they have no desire to then deriding them for not wanting to do what you say, I suspect is some sort of functional mental illness, like OCD or a compulsion to control others -- and that was a joke, just in case the PC thought police are reading this!

Whoa.. easy there. I think he's just throwing out a suggestion. Like "hey.. you love the series? You know what else you might like, these books". Kind of like when you go to Amazon and buy something, they suggest other things you might like.

[Dryhtscipe]

RE Jaime killing his cousin: it's not about showing how much of an arsehole Jaime is, nor is it at all out of character. The lesser folk exist purely to die for the greater folk. That's a strong theme throughout the novels and is clearly being picked out as a strong theme for the series, too (hence the whole angry-medic-woman-chastises-Robb bit earlier in the season).

Jaime quite clearly understands this. Not to mention that he and the Hound had a very strong correlation in this episode: they both fundamentally enjoy what they are, but possibly for very different reasons.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Dryhtscipe

[Dryhtscipe]

When Theon and co arrive to that farmer's house with the two orphans...what was it that one of Theon's men, forget his name, picked off the ground?

This also ties into what I just said about "the little guy doesn't matter". Tywin is so conscious of this that it's entirely unconscious for him - why should anyone want to kill Mr Unimportant Faceless Weapon? Clearly, someone is intending to kill him. He's the one that matters.

His assumption ties in perfectly with his son killing a cousin for his own escape. Jaime is one of those who matter. Those who matter do not care for those who don't, and those that matter who DO care for those who don't... perish. Like Ned Stark.

[Dryhtscipe]

Lord Karstarks boy killed on guard duty... Would a powerful lords son be assigned guard duty?

Yes. It's not "just guard duty". It's Jaime Lannister, hugely feared Kingslayer. Being assigned to guard him is Big Time.

[The Nerdly Knight]

I was really thrown off by this episode and all the changes that have been made. So far I have had no issues with the sight deviations here and there but this week threw me for a serious loop. I will say on a positive note I am enjoying the chemistry between Ygritte and Jon.

[Evamitchelle]

Yes. It's not "just guard duty". It's Jaime Lannister, hugely feared Kingslayer. Being assigned to guard him is Big Time.

Then why would he only assign one guard, if the Kingslayer is such a great prize ?

Also welcome to the boards ! (You can use the Multiquote function at the bottom right of a post if you want to answer to several posts at the same time).

[legba11]

I think Robb gave the duty of guarding Jaime to Karstark for a reason. Karstark was being uppity to his King, so he gave him a backhanded slap down with the "honor" of guarding Jaime. Also he likely wanted someone he could count on (Starks are sadly poor judges of the failings of others) to report back to him and important information Alton may pass on to Jaime.

[Jon Black]

Well, duh. That's pretty obvious, isn't it? :D Yeah, I have a strong interest in the books but still not strong enough to actually read them. I prefer reading ABOUT them. How horrible am I! Besided, "spoiler" is just an empty word for me. I do understand it's meaning for other people but it'f basically impossible to spoil anything for me. You could tell me EVERYTHING that happens in the books and yet I'd happily read them if I wanted to. Actually I'm weird in this matter, too, because I usually read endings first. Why? Because I want to know whether I like the ending or not. If not, what's the point of wasting my time when outcome will not be satisfactory. If I like it, I'll be invested to know what happens before the ending. And usually the more I know the more I'm interested in reading/watching (unless I'm convinced I'm not going to like it).

I have that nagging curiousity to know what happens at the end of a book or series for the same reason. I dont have to particularly 'like' an ending to invest my time, I just have to respect it. And it is very rare that I dont atleast respect where the author took or takes the story. I'm pretty open minded and liberal in this sense (To my point, Pulp Fiction is my favorite movie and I am literally rewatching The Grey for about the twentieth time at this very moment. Movies, yes, but far from happy or complete endings).

Anyways, I can actually attribute this nagging curiousity to one book----Red Dragon by Thomas Harris. Will Graham running and hiding at the end while he leaves his wife and stepson to deal with the Tooth Fairy ruined an otherwise classic book for me.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Jon Black

[Greywolf2375]

Yes. It's not "just guard duty". It's Jaime Lannister, hugely feared Kingslayer. Being assigned to guard him is Big Time.

So why do they only have one guard on duty? Catelyn Stark walks into Renly's camp and has more guards on her. A man with the nickname of "Kingslayer", the KotN is to his knowledge around and there is only one person watching?

[DirtyRobes]

Yes. It's not "just guard duty". It's Jaime Lannister, hugely feared Kingslayer. Being assigned to guard him is Big Time.

So why do they only have one guard on duty? Catelyn Stark walks into Renly's camp and has more guards on her. A man with the nickname of "Kingslayer", the KotN is to his knowledge around and there is only one person watching?

In the world of Westeros, guarding Jamie Lannister The Kingslayler is absolutely a big deal!!!

In the SHOW, he only has One guard so he only has to kill One guard. In reality he would had to have killed at least a few more just to get out of the camp. IF in the books Robb had taken Jaime camp hoping I can Only imagine he built his camp Around Jamie's cell and did not leave it on the outskirts with One Guard!! like in the show:)

[J_Crews]

Whoa.. easy there. I think he's just throwing out a suggestion. Like "hey.. you love the series? You know what else you might like, these books". Kind of like when you go to Amazon and buy something, they suggest other things you might like.

The voice of reason. Thank you.

[Hoo]

probably what they were getting the hounds to sniff and track.

Prbly not, because the hounds reportedly lost track of the scent in the village.

[Currawong]

In the world of Westeros, guarding Jamie Lannister The Kingslayler is absolutely a big deal!!!

In the SHOW, he only has One guard so he only has to kill One guard. In reality he would had to have killed at least a few more just to get out of the camp. IF in the books Robb had taken Jaime camp hoping I can Only imagine he built his camp Around Jamie's cell and did not leave it on the outskirts with One Guard!! like in the show:)

When you look at it from a practical point of view, I guess they figured (reasonably) that a man in a large cage, who is heavily chained at his hands and neck and secured to a large post, is not exactly going anywhere in a hurry! As Alton is unarmed and doesn't have the keys to Jaime's chains with him :D I guess they also figured that he didn't pose much of a threat either. Of course, the way they have written Jaime, it was a little silly putting anyone at all in with him, but again I guess Robb's and co didn't think Jaime would kill a very distant cousin. The only really stupid mistake they made was having the keys handily available on the person of that single guard, and not held in a nearby tent or with someone in authority.

[Northern Girl 30]

This also ties into what I just said about "the little guy doesn't matter". Tywin is so conscious of this that it's entirely unconscious for him - why should anyone want to kill Mr Unimportant Faceless Weapon? Clearly, someone is intending to kill him. He's the one that matters. His assumption ties in perfectly with his son killing a cousin for his own escape. Jaime is one of those who matter. Those who matter do not care for those who don't, and those that matter who DO care for those who don't... perish. Like Ned Stark.

And Robb :(

[CrypticWeirwood]

Gone too far from the original story with the episode in my opinion (as I have been reading the book parallel, I have to say I am becoming disapointed with the TV series)

You’re making a really big mistake. You have to watch the show first or else you will be terrible, terrible disappointed no matter what happens. If you read the book, you will be angry at what was left out or changed in the show. If you watch the show first, you will be delighted with how much more there is.

Why in the world do you want to be angry instead of delighted?

[oscarinfw]

A couple of thoughts on the HBO adaptation.

(1) I enjoyed the first season thoroughly; the second season not so much. Could that be because I had read the first four (4) books in-between (and now working on ADWD). I've the suspicion I'd enjoy the second season more if I had not been "spoiled" by the books and the character/plot deviations.

(2) I think they should have devoted more than 10 episodes to ACOK, even if it means spreading it over two (2) seasons. As it stands, I'm worried how they are going to maintain "continuity" with the subsequent books given the character/plot deviations driven in large part by the need to compress the plot lines to fit within 10 episodes.

I do not know where George Martin is going with this series but it seems to me he could S-T-R-E-E-E-T-T-T-C-C-C-H-H this story out a long time over many books; he's currently only working with a fraction of the World he's created. Who's to say when/if he might bring in story lines from other parts of this world ?

At the very least, IF the dragons are going to play a significant military role in these books, they will need years and years to grow, "mature" and become a significant military assets for Daenery's et al. How Daenery's manages to learn how to "tame" these growing dragons seems problematical but then again, I am not that far into ADWD.

[J_Crews]

... I do not know where George Martin is going with this series but it seems to me he could S-T-R-E-E-E-T-T-T-C-C-C-H-H this story out a long time over many books...

I'm of a mind that there will be 3 more books, as opposed to the 2 that are planned, in order to bring the series to a close. I could be wrong, but I have a hard time seeing how he can wrap it up in only 2 more books without rushing things, and I do not believe he will rush things. It was originally only supposed to be a trilogy, so his "plans" are malleable. I don't believe he'll be satisfied until he's told the story he wants to tell, and I, for one, applaud that... though I fervently hope there are no more 5 years gaps.

At the very least, IF the dragons are going to play a significant military role in these books, they will need years and years to grow, "mature" and become a significant military assets for Daenery's et al. How Daenery's manages to learn how to "tame" these growing dragons seems problematical but then again, I am not that far into ADWD.

Keep reading.

They're big enough to ride as of the end of ADwD, and one is, at least partially, broken to a rider.

Used spoiler tags in case you're trying to avoid them, though, since you're posting in the book spoiler marked thread, that's likely moot.

Edited May 18, 2012 by J.S. Crews