[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion

[zippypoodle]

You’re making a really big mistake. You have to watch the show first or else you will be terrible, terrible disappointed no matter what happens. If you read the book, you will be angry at what was left out or changed in the show. If you watch the show first, you will be delighted with how much more there is. Why in the world do you want to be angry instead of delighted?

There haven't been any meaningful changes, so the poster you're quoting is getting upset for nothing anyway.

[mwizzle83]

Are we assuming Catelyn is freeing Jaimie? Isn't it more likely she is just going to cut off his hand first.

I completely agree. It seems that Vargo Hoat, who cuts off Jaime's hand in ASOS, is one of those extra characters that HBO doesn't really have room for. As a result, I wouldn't be surprised if Catelyn is the one who cuts off Jaime's hand and then after hearing of Bran and Rickon's deaths, sets him free under Brienne's watch.

I would love to see Vargo Hoat in the TV series though.

[Marjie Eilie Myatt]

I could be wrong, but I have a hard time seeing how he can wrap it up in only 2 more books without rushing things,

He could wrap it up in 2 books (depending how far you want the story to go before you consider it 'ended'), by forgoing some of the rich description, since by now the world is already "built" for its audience. By the fifth book, I was saying, "Enough of the 'aimless glance' already!" (See Umberto Eco's critique of minutiae that don't advance the plot and what purpose they serve, such as setting us up for implausible or violent action.)

I realize this is now a tangent not directly related to Episode 7.

[bardgal]

Sigh. I'm not requiring anything, pooh bear. It was a suggestion made in an effort to increase someone else's enjoyment. I couldn't possibly care less what someone does or doesn't read. My entire position, all along, has been simply to say, "if you like one, you'll most likely also enjoy the other." Sheesh.

Not everything is about YOU.

You obviously mistook my original post on bullying for something YOU said. It wasn't. I quoted the original post, which wasn't YOURS. Please go back and see who it WAS directed to - it's easy to see, that's what the QUOTE button does.

My point has NEVER been about people suggesting the books. It's THE WAY a certain poster attacked another poster.

And don't call me "pooh bear." You don't know me, and it just makes you look like that douchebag from Legally Blonde.

[CrypticWeirwood]

A couple of thoughts on the HBO adaptation.

(1) I enjoyed the first season thoroughly; the second season not so much. Could that be because I had read the first four (4) books in-between (and now working on ADWD). I've the suspicion I'd enjoy the second season more if I had not been "spoiled" by the books and the character/plot deviations.

Ding ding ding! Exactly right. Not one of the nonbookers I know have been unhappy with the show. It’s only the bookhuggers who carp and crow.

(2) I think they should have devoted more than 10 episodes to ACOK, even if it means spreading it over two (2) seasons. As it stands, I'm worried how they are going to maintain "continuity" with the subsequent books given the character/plot deviations driven in large part by the need to compress the plot lines to fit within 10 episodes.

Excepting the eponymous nickname of Lord Baelish, we seen surprisingly little of a cock for these 10 episodes. Bit of a bummer that — although there was a bit of bum last time around, now that you mention it.

[CrypticWeirwood]

There haven't been any meaningful changes, so the poster you're quoting is getting upset for nothing anyway.

Gotta admit that that’s what I thought, too, but I figured I’d given the lamer the benefit of the doubt.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I completely agree. It theemth that Vargo Hoat, who cutth off Jaime'th hand in AThOTh, ith one of fothe ekthtra characterth that HBO doethn't really have room for. As a rethult, I wouldn't be thurprithed if Catelyn ith da one who cutth off Jaime'th hand and den avter hearing of Bran and Rickon'th deathfth, thets him vree under Brienne'th watch. I would love to thee Vargo Hoat in the TV theries though.

Yeth indeed, tho would I, but do you fink HBO could do a good enough job wiffout making him thound too thilly? ; }

[legba11]

I will be shocked if Hoat is cut, he may be pushed back to next season. Catelyn is not going to cut off Jaime's hand! All she cares about is getting her daughters back. Why would she mangle the package she wants to trade for them??? I'm assuming she doesn't want mangled daughters back.

[bardgal]

You’re making a really big mistake. You have to watch the show first or else you will be terrible, terrible disappointed no matter what happens. If you read the book, you will be angry at what was left out or changed in the show. If you watch the show first, you will be delighted with how much more there is. Why in the world do you want to be angry instead of delighted?

I am always amazed when people think other people will feel or think exactly like them. I mean, I get sharing your own personal experience, but then taking that a step farther in the expectation that others will have your same experience is kind of mindboggling.

I started reading the books after season 1 ended. (I'm a ridiculously slow reader because my life is pretty full..) As of the beginning of season 2, I had just about finished ASOS.

By your theory, since I read book 2 before watching season 2, I should be as "terribly, terribly disappointed", and "angry at what was left out or changed in the show."

Guess what? I'm NOT. I love BOTH. I am absolutely DELIGHTED with the show. In fact, I like much of the show BETTER. They both compliment each other, and for me, the books are the books, and the show is the show. I'm having fun experiencing BOTH. Right now I'm in the middle of book 4, and enjoying myself immensely.

[J_Crews]

I completely agree. It seems that Vargo Hoat, who cuts off Jaime's hand in ASOS, is one of those extra characters that HBO doesn't really have room for. As a result, I wouldn't be surprised if Catelyn is the one who cuts off Jaime's hand and then after hearing of Bran and Rickon's deaths, sets him free under Brienne's watch.

I would love to see Vargo Hoat in the TV series though.

Hoat or no Hoat, having Catelyn cut Jaime's hand off would be a disastrously bad change.

[House Snow]

^Hmm I didn' think about that (of course thinking isn't Catelyn strongest suit either). Anyway I hope they execute it in a way that people wont say WTF is Catelyn doing.

[J_Crews]

Not everything is about YOU. You obviously mistook my original post on bullying for something YOU said. It wasn't. I quoted the original post, which wasn't YOURS. Please go back and see who it WAS directed to - it's easy to see, that's what the QUOTE button does. My point has NEVER been about people suggesting the books. It's THE WAY a certain poster attacked another poster.

All snarkiness aside, yes -- you were talking about what another poster said, but you responding directly to my post challenging whether or not it reached the severity of being qualified as "e-bullying" (a position others challenged as well). You even re-quoted my little joke about the PC Thought Police, so how you could be surprised by my responding as to the origin of the whole convoluted, ignorant discussion escapes me. I'm done now, both because it's off-topic and no longer amusing.

And don't call me "pooh bear." You don't know me, and it just makes you look like that douchebag from Legally Blonde.

None of us know each other. It's an internet board. Again, you're taking yourself far too seriously and degenerating into calling me vulgar names. Let's just let it die, shall we?

Sheesh.

[J_Crews]

They both compliment each other, and for me, the books are the books, and the show is the show. I'm having fun experiencing BOTH. Right now I'm in the middle of book 4, and enjoying myself immensely.

I agree.

Edited May 18, 2012 by J.S. Crews

[bardgal]

Hoat or no Hoat, having Catelyn cut Jaime's hand off would be a disastrously bad change.

Yeah... I can't see them not having the Jamie v Brienne mutual beatdown. That's a pretty epic scene that changes who they both are. And they can't really have that scene if Jamie doesn't have a hand.

[StannisandDaeny]

Exactly. I often feel their respect for one another grew from there with the 'respect for each other as warriors' as a core basis which they established during that fight.

I'm done now, both because it's off-topic and no longer amusing. None of us know each other. It's an internet board. Again, you're taking yourself far too seriously and degenerating into calling me vulgar names. Let's just let it die, shall we? Sheesh.

It all boils down to (usually a combination of) 1. People coming to the internet and expecting a good time, then being unable to relieve the tension they wanted to relieve because everything is not completely as they want it to be 2. People taking themselves too seriously 3. People everywhere being too touchy in general. 4. It being more difficult to carry over intonation and irony over the internet. EvaMitchelle got more offended by me than she was supposed to be too most likely because of point 4. 5. No one being as awesomely cool-headed as I am (see what I did there? ^^)

Btw, I'm watching Season 1 with commentaries now, and hope they do a commentary on this episode as well, preferably a writer who explains why all the changes were necessary... You do make a lot more sense of it when a guy explains it like that, weird as that may sound.

Edited May 18, 2012 by StannisandDaeny

[bardgal]

All snarkiness aside, yes -- you were talking about what another poster said, but you responding directly to my post challenging whether or not it reached the severity of being qualified as "e-bullying" (a position others challenged as well). You even re-quoted my little joke about the PC Thought Police, so how you could be surprised by my responding as to the origin of the whole convoluted, ignorant discussion escapes me. I'm done now, both because it's off-topic and no longer amusing. None of us know each other. It's an internet board. Again, you're taking yourself far too seriously and degenerating into calling me vulgar names. Let's just let it die, shall we? Sheesh.

You made it about you. It wasn't. Other people agreed with me. We're even.

I used your tactic on you, and you have a problem? Sheesh. Who is taking things too seriously?

Don't ever call me pooh bear. It's offensive. It makes you a condescending ahole. Instead of never taking responsibility for something you actually did, you could man up and apologize.

[bardgal]

Exactly. I often feel their respect for one another grew from there with the 'respect for each other as warriors' as a core basis which they established during that fight. It all boils down to 1. People coming to the internet and expecting a good time, then being unable to relieve the tension they wanted to relieve because everything is not completely as they want it to be 2. People taking themselves too seriously 3. People everywhere being too touchy in general. 4. It being more difficult to carry over intonation and irony over the internet. EvaMitchelle got more offended by me than she was supposed to be too most likely because of point 4. 5. No one being as awesomely cool-headed as I am (see what I did there? ^^) Btw, I'm watching Season 1 with commentaries now, and hope they do a commentary on this episode as well, preferably a writer who explains why all the changes were necessary... You do make a lot more sense of it when a guy explains it like that, weird as that may sound.

The commentaries on the season 1 dvds are so fun!!!

[StannisandDaeny]

Don't ever call me pooh bear. It's offensive. It makes you a condescending ahole.

Do you see what's wrong with this quote?

And yeah, they are, I laughed my ass off at the episode 3 commentary I think it was. Where the kids are singing the intro to the show along especially. I also like the little side-stories like how the elevator jammed and the technical information about how the scenes were shot and came to be and stuff, makes you appreciate the creators more.

Edited May 18, 2012 by StannisandDaeny

[bardgal]

Do you see what's wrong with this quote? And yeah, they are, I laughed my ass off at the episode 3 commentary I think it was. Where the kids are singing the intro to the show along especially.

Yeah, you're right. My bad. Let me rephrase: Calling a perfect stranger "pooh bear" is condescending, sexist, and offensive.

The kids singing the intro was one of the best moments ever. Almost as awesome as Nikolaj mentioning the "10 minutes of Slapping Joffrey" video.

[J_Crews]

Calling a perfect stranger "pooh bear" is condescending, sexist, and offensive.

Calling you "pooh bear" isn't sexist. I've said it to other men, more times than I can count. It's a Disney character. It was a reference to my argument that you're being overly-sensitive, which you confirm, by the way, by calling it not just sexist (which is absurd), but also offensive and condescending, all in the same sentence. Other than a very few extremely egregious examples (such as racial slurs), words are words: they only have the power to offend you if you willfully give them that power over you. I do not, so feel free to call me a "condescending ahole" all you wish. I give words zero power over my emotions.

But, with that said, I apologize for offending you.

Can we be done now? Please and thank you?

Edited May 19, 2012 by J.S. Crews