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[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion

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Here are some of the changes that I´ve had issues with, although we might disagree on their relative importance

Jaime killing his cousin, turning him from a man whos two really bad deeds could be justified into a sociopath, thus making redemption seem unlikely

Robb falling in love with Talisa and flaunting it in front of all of his bannermen, changing alot of things about the Red Wedding

Now it seems that Cat will release Jaime without getting the news of Bran and Rickon, changing alot of things about her decisions

Cersei complaining to Tyrion about what a crazy nutbag Joffrey really is, so why all the drama when they offed him at the Purple Wedding

I could list more but I´ve already done so in the threads about the earlier episodes

Again, this is the same Jaime that tried to Kill a small boy "for love". Do you think sacrificing some distant relative is some how worse than that? I think this is a case where your mindset with Jaime is of him after his "redemption". Pre-missing his hand Jaime was not a good person, at all.

We never saw how Rob fell in love with Talisa/Jeyne in the books. And the red wedding will happen just the same. Robb will likely come back from the Krag married to Jeyne and the Freys will be outraged. Either that, or they'll add in more plot of him being wounded at the Krag, tended to by "Talisa", etc. Either way, the end result will be the red wedding.

Catelyn has 4 children that are currently being held captive. She has something in her possession that she feels will free two of the 4. That's honestly reason enough. Especially since her bartering tool may not last the night, and she knows that Sansa and Arya are as good as dead if Jaime dies. Plenty of reasoning there.

Cersei also tells Sansa that she will love her Children as she does her own. Knowing that Joffrey is crazy and not loving your son are two different things entirely. Of course she'd be upset when he dies.

Edited by Versiroth

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Robb's going to have a busy week next week - he's going to have to be wounded so Jeyne can take care of him, heal enough to have sex, and then get married. What a day.

I like the Quarth changes, but the set looks like Disneyworld.

Love Ygritte, Where is this going? My guess - the wildlings have also captured Qhorin. He sees Jon is captured also and starts screaming "turncloak!" Jon's like NO, WTF, but then he catches on. They're forced to fight, and Qhorin sort of hisses instructions to Jon as they're trying to kill each other. I guess it could work. I LOVED hearing "you know nothing" - this is the line I've been watiing for!

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You guys seemed to miss when Robb is with his troops and they say they have captured more Lannister Troops. Karstark is going to murder the Lannister prisoners. So Robb will still take off Karstark's head. I'm more wondering what that look between Roose and Talisa/Jeyne -- I think Roose is noticing Robb being dragged around with his other head. Which is now starting to spin the wheels about the R&W and maybe sending a Raven to Ramsay.

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I had to respond to the "adaptation-tatoo" poster with some hyperbole lol, don´t take it too serious

I´ve read the books, though I must have missed the lesbian sex scenes at LF´s place, the scene where Osha fucks Theon, the scene where Joffrey has the hookers beat eachother and many others. T&A that makes sense = good, T&A for the sake of more T&A = bad

Did you forget Jaime mixing semen with Cersei's period blood? Martin was plenty sexually graphic (and often completely outside the needs of the books). They have done it in different places, but they are quite true to him there.

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Is it possible that the season finale will be a double-episode lasting 2 hours?

This would mean there are two more 'broadcasts', yet three more 'episodes'...

Just a thought!

There's already a thread about this stating the preview was removed from the second broadcast. There are 3 more episodes already named and displayed in this forum. There are three more episode synopsis available on the internet. Highly doubt that it's anything else than an HBO flub.

In fact, knowing HBO there may even be a two week wait for one of those episodes, they normally skip holiday weekends (the 27th).

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I just had a thought - who is Karstark going to kill now?

he was in a perfect position to kill Alton (being a distant relative of the Lannisters) but that's out the window.

I do want to see how this gets handled - Robb's beheading of Karstark I thought was a pretty big moment for him and would be an especially interesting counterpoint to Theon's beheading of Cassell.

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For all the complaining, how good is Tywin/Arya?

Not a ship I support, personally, but different strokes...

...

I like their scenes. Dance really nails his Tywin; we just don't know what kind of person he is privately in the books. We only see him through the eyes of his children, all of which piss him off in one way or another. I don't think him getting on reasonably well with his cupbearer is out of character at all.

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Did you forget Jaime mixing semen with Cersei's period blood? Martin was plenty sexually graphic (and often completely outside the needs of the books). They have done it in different places, but they are quite true to him there.

To me it just feels like they´ve wanted to include as many nude women as possible. When will we see a man doing a full frontal nudity in every other episode?

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No chain? Really? There are not many episodes left and they have a ton of things to cover. The chain is a key reason why they are able to defeat stannis. Maybe it will be introduced next week? Who knows.

The execution in quarth was pretty cool and a good change but they killed the Spice King dude! He was the best addition to the books. His dialogue was great.

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However, here is what I want to know: All the things they are skipping, it makes me wonder if those elements will not be important in the series, and they know that. For instance: The boys hiding in the Winterfell crypts (and removing the swords), Jon's connection with Ghost, Jaime's redemption, etc.

In other words, are we finding out now that certain things I thought would be important in Books 6/7 are just throw-away details? I mean, I like the show, but compared to the books, it's just "eh" for me. Worth an hour of my time for sure, best show on TV for sure and I hope it's renewed for all 7-8 seasons--but I kinda feel like some things from future books are being spoiled by the way they are playing out the show.

This is my question too. The crypt stuff and some of the premonition dreams that different characters have seem to be pointing to particular conclusions that you can draw after reading everything, but if they're not in the show... Arya is supposed to be dreaming of Nymeria while she's at Harrenhal. Jon is supposed to see the wildling army via a Ghost dream. The House of the Undying prophecies will be interesting next week (if they happen next week...)

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Why would Roose's bastard son be played by a guy older than Roose himself? <_<

He's older? I didn't even notice... I think they could get away with it.

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Agree 100%, Thunder. I often hard on it (I refer to them as HBO moments). They are, however, true to style of the novels in that way (IMO) as Martin includes plenty of gratuitous sex scenes.

HBO's #1 show (by a mile) is True Blood. Which is a Vampire soap opera, with lots of graphic sex. I consider this the price to pay for getting such an awesome show.

Considering it's acceptance in the US (not much), we've gotten more than a fair number of dongs in the show.

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I think the Chain is gone, I said this last week. I realize that won't be popular here, but I am relieved. I found it stupid in book form and on film it would look horrible.

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Pretty good episode overall. The show's main strength this season continues to be the acting performances and this episodes was one of the best in this respect. The changes in the Robb/Cat/Jaime plotline mostly worked, though Jaime killing his cousin was unnecessary and silly. The Qarth scene was pretty well done, Iain Glen gave another fantastic performance.

Main problem for me was the cringe worthy Jon - Ygritte scene. It would've been mildly amusing if she had made one or two jokes about his blue balls and left it at that, but instead she went on and on and on...Pointless and way overlong scene. Qhorin must be the most overrated ranger in the NW, BYW, since he couldn't find Jon. How hard would it be to track him in the snow?

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I don’t know how people can live with all this hate bubbling up inside them. If I hated something this much, I would shun it, not obsess over it and tear myself up inside. But they don’t seem to understand the damage they’re doing themselves. It’s really sickening to watch.

All scenes with Theon or the Lannisters in them completely ruled. With the exception of Tywin and Arya, which was excellent, the best scenes’ dialogue was the stuff lifted right from the book. My goodness Charles Dance has a deep voice! I think he’s lowering it to convey command strength. It works.

I’m not sure whether the actress playing Dany is just weak, or whether the dialogue they’ve written for her is weak. Something wasn’t clicking for me there.

I really love that Rickon got a few lines.

The only nudity was a man’s backside being painted by Quaithe. And not a particularly attractive backside, either, despite her artistic efforts. ;}

I can’t figure out the arrangement between Xaro and the warlocks. I mean, plotwise I don’t have a tremendous problem with it. I just wonder what the actual mechanics of the deal could have been, the who gets what exchange.

One thing about Pyat Pree’s reduplicative antics: they’ve saved on actors’ salaries to play other warlocks. ;}

It’s too bad Tyrion has lost his chain.

I miss Davos.

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Agree 100%, Thunder. I often hard on it (I refer to them as HBO moments). They are, however, true to style of the novels in that way (IMO) as Martin includes plenty of gratuitous sex scenes.

HBO's #1 show (by a mile) is True Blood. Which is a Vampire soap opera, with lots of graphic sex. I consider this the price to pay for getting such an awesome show.

Considering it's acceptance in the US (not much), we've gotten more than a fair number of dongs in the show.

I understand your point about male nudity and I´ve also assumed that this is the reason. And I don´t mind sex scenes when they make sense, regardless of if they are in the books or not. I thought the Renly/Margaery scene was really well done and made alot of sense. It showed Renlys frustration and Margaerys pragmatism in ways that seemed true to the characters. However when Littlefinger is telling his masterplan to two random hookers who just happen to be having sex with eachother. I can´t help but think to myself: "what the f-ck?!"

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I'm more wondering what that look between Roose and Talisa/Jeyne -- I think Roose is noticing Robb being dragged around with his other head. Which is now starting to spin the wheels about the R&W and maybe sending a Raven to Ramsay.

I caught that too. I liked how they added that bit in there to help show Roose's side of it. nonetheless I was pretty much screaming at Robb through my TV the entire time.

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