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[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion

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ummm book Cat responded to Cleo's information that Tyrion would trade the girls for Jamie, combind with the boys murders. Cat believes Tyrion will release the girls if Jamie is released. She is banking on tyrion's honor. In the episode last night all Clea (sic) said was the queen ripped up the paper so Cat has NO reason to think that releasing Jamie will result in her daughters release

but she had littlefinger come to her in the show and tell her what tyrions intentions were.

Edited by timstanton

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Is it just me, or was Madame Scrabbleface a lot less unnerving and portentious in the TV show than she was in the books?

Scrabbleface’s scene with Ser Kiltedguy, while she toils away at the naked flesh beneath her hand, strangely reminded me of Tywin’s intro scene of venery conversing with Number-Two Son.

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i think shae is as good as dead. my theory that ros is going to take over the shae role is looking more likely with the events of last night.

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ummm book Cat responded to Cleo's information that Tyrion would trade the girls for Jamie, combind with the boys murders. Cat believes Tyrion will release the girls if Jamie is released. She is banking on tyrion's honor. In the episode last night all Clea (sic) said was the queen ripped up the paper so Cat has NO reason to think that releasing Jamie will result in her daughters release

No, but she knows for a fact that if he dies, the girls die.

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i have faith in GRRM and the shows writers to know what they're doing. i'm sure all the changes in character storylines will be more understandble as the show continues. One hour episodes are not enough though.

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Pyat Pree’s multiforked murder of the Eleven reminded me of nothing so much as when Wakim ( Set the Destroyer) employs temporal fugue in Roger Zelazny’s towering Creatures of Light and Darkness.

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one thing the series is going to have a problem with ina few years is when Arya hits puberty, gonna be kind of tough picturing a post pubescent Arya as a 9 yr old FM acolyte

I think we'll get the infamous "5 Year Gap" from the books on the show without 5 show years passing. Arya's storyline will be the better for it. Dany is already aged up on the show.

I'll always maintain that the book series would have been even better if GRRM would've been able to make the gap work.

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i think shae is as good as dead. my theory that ros is going to take over the shae role is looking more likely with the events of last night.

Really? How come?

I thought the consensus opinion was that Ros was destined to replace Alayaya. Why do you think otherwise?

Just curioso.

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Small point that I liked - when Robb is holding his councils, first with Alton and then with Talissa, you can see Roose judging Robb's every move and even making a little humorless sarcastic quip about "too many prisoners".

The show's ability to set up smaller (at least now) characters with only small pieces of dialogue has been impressive. This is why I hope against hope that the writers have found some way to make Dagmar Reek/Ramsay, because in hindsight it's going to be obvious to a non-reader how he was setting Theon up to fail, and smirking in the background every time he crashed and burned.

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Small point that I liked - when Robb is holding his councils, first with Alton and then with Talissa, you can see Roose judging Robb's every move and even making a little humorless sarcastic quip about "too many prisoners".

The show's ability to set up smaller (at least now) characters with only small pieces of dialogue has been impressive. This is why I hope against hope that the writers have found some way to make Dagmar Reek/Ramsay, because in hindsight it's going to be obvious to a non-reader how he was setting Theon up to fail, and smirking in the background every time he crashed and burned.

I can see where you are coming from, though in the book it seems that killing B&J is the one thing his father (representing Iron Men) would have approved of.

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Theon was again absolutely superb, Alfie Allen has been one of the best actors this series without a shadow of a doubt. The end scene was perfect.

Still hoping Ramsay comes in at the end instead of some sort of Dagmar change, as far as I remember there has been no mention of Ramsay except from Roose or anything to connect Dagmar with Ramsay except it being the most obvious course the writers have taken, what I think may happen now is that Theon will send Dagmar off with the gold and he will return with Ramsay, and then Ramsay will sort things out, so to speak.

Great episode, the last two have been amongst my favourites of the show.

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Really? How come?

I thought the consensus opinion was that Ros was destined to replace Alayaya. Why do you think otherwise?

Just curioso.

because at this point tyrion has little to no connection to ros for which circie would confuse shae with ros. and from the "seven devils" trailer we know that circie does SOMETHING to tyrion to make him say his line "i will hurt you for this, the day will come when your joy will turn to ashes" this season. if circie hurts ros, would tyrion really get that upset? i mean he wasn't all that upset that joffrey had ros beat that other whore. and with shae outing herself to an extent to the other handmaid, it seems like they're setting up shae being caught. i think shae's going to be killed, and tyrion's going to turn to ros next season.

plus the fact that shae and tyrions relationship is almost nothing like it is in the books. they never have sex, i'm pretty sure we haven't ever heard her call him "my giant of lanister," and she's just generally much more aggressive than book shae. ros seems more like book shae than tv shae does.

Edited by turdle

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What's infuriating about things like that, to me, is that Jaime's canon!escape attempt could have been a quick scene included in that episode, instead of Joffrey's nonsense. That way, Jaime wouldn't have been off-screen for 5 full episodes.

But we never saw Jaime's escape scene in the books! It was very briefly reported third hand, when there is an explanation of why he is in the cells and not in one of the privileged tower rooms at Riverrun normally used for high ranking prisoners. And as TV show Jaime is not being held at Riverrun, but being carted around with Robb's army, the escape plot from the books really wouldn't work.

Same thing with people complaining that we never see him as a wonderful swordsman. The TV scene where he fights Ned never happened in Book 1. Jaime has a fearsome reputation, but again we are only told about his final attempt to kill Robb, including how many he cut down, just before he (Jaime) is captured. We don't actually see the battle of the Whispering Wood at all! The first time we actually see Jaime fight is the scene with Brienne in ASOS.

By all means complain that certain things from the books were left out of the show, or have been altered. But please - don't complain that the show somehow 'omits' various things that were NOT shown in the books!

As for the harbour chain, I am glad some have people pointed out that it was quite a normal defence mechanism for ports anyway, so having one is no big deal. IF they are going to include it in Blackwater battle, then I don't see why it needed any screen time before now. The preparations for it could easily be covered in about 90 seconds in Episode 8, with (say) Tyrion just checking that it has been properly strengthened as he ordered, that it's all working, and that the orders are understood. He could easily do that while marching around checking on the wildfyre.

Edited by Currawong

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Did I miss something? was that Cleos Frey that Jaime killed?

That's what I got out of it. I just have to view the book and series as two completely different animals at this point.

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This was my least favorite episode because it was devoid of meaningful dialog, completely stagnant as far as Clash of Kings, and filled with useless acts like killing of council and Jaime's escape. Nothing happened. One more like this and I can safely declare this show is starting to bore me.

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because at this point tyrion has little to no connection to ros for which circie would confuse shae with ros. and from the "seven devils" trailer we know that circie does SOMETHING to tyrion to make him say his line "i will hurt you for this, the day will come when your joy will turn to ashes" this season. if circie hurts ros, would tyrion really get that upset? i mean he wasn't all that upset that joffrey had ros beat that other whore. and with shae outing herself to an extent to the other handmaid, it seems like they're setting up shae being caught. i think shae's going to be killed, and tyrion's going to turn to ros next season.

plus the fact that shae and tyrions relationship is almost nothing like it is in the books. they never have sex, i'm pretty sure we haven't ever heard her call him "my giant of lanister," and she's just generally much more aggressive than book shae. ros seems more like book shae than tv shae does.

I think you're right that it wouldn't really make sense for Cersei to torture Ros (or any other whore) in place of Alayaya (as it seems it would only confuse TV viewers), but I don't think Shae will actually die (yet). Cersei will just torture her... badly... but let her live. I think it would be stronger that way, still allowing Tyrion to kill her later, rather than Ros who we would have to watch him completely form a new relationship with (screen time better spent elsewhere). But who knows, maybe you're right. That's just my guess, based off of Shae's reckless threatening of the other maid in this episode. Seems rather obvious that would get back to Cersei.

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One thing the series is going to have a problem with in a few years is when Arya hits puberty, gonna be kind of tough picturing a post-pubescent Arya as a 9-year-old Faceless Man acolyte.

Why would you think that she would be a nine-year-old? Bran is already ten in the show. Are you confusing book-ages with show-ages?

Plus even the book-ages you have wrong not right. Arya was born in 289 AL. It’s 300 or 301 by the time she’s in Braavos, so that makes her eleven or twelve already. And that’s in the books. In the show, she’s two or three years older than she is in the books.

No problem. Don’t worry. Be happy. Have a nice day. Hope this whelps.

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Dany is already aged up on the show.

All the kids are aged-up, except, apparently, Sansa.

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Random thoughts about episode 7:

  • This is probably the episode that deviated most from the book in terms of made up scenes and storylines. And not all for the better.
  • We see Bran et al. after having escaped Winterfell. Does that mean they will sneak back and hide in the crypts, or will that part be tossed? I liked the crypt-hiding twist so it would be a shame if that wasn't kept.
  • No Reek, but still we had a previous mention of the Bastard of Bolton, so I guess we'll see Ramsay but not as Reek. Too bad, I liked that twist too.
  • And here it comes... wait for it... "You know nothing, Jon Snow!"
  • But those scenes with Jon and Ygritte just walking around got repetitive and tiresome, especially with her trying to get into his pants.
  • And Jon is now a Wildling captive, without having to kill Halfhand. I don't like it. It makes his defection much less honourable. They should have substituted such a scene for one of those pointless Jon/Ygritte walking around scenes.
  • Finally, a great overlook over the ruins of Harrenhal. Very cool!
  • Charles Dance is excellent and I have a lot more sympathy for his Tywin than book Tywin. And him and Maise Williams sparring off is a treat to watch.
  • However, this defies belief that he wouldn't suspect who Arya is, especially now when he knows she's highborn.
  • I think season one's Mountain was better than this one, but give the new one a few scenes to show what a cruel brute he is and I might change my mind.
  • At last, a conversation (of sorts) between the Hound and Sansa. I was afraid they would have forgotten them (or worse, tossed it). They should do at least one more before the battle of Blackwater.
  • Charlie Chaplin's granddaughter sure is pretty. I can understand Robb wanting her instead of some Frey woman.
  • Poor Lannister cousin. He had such a nice warrior bonding with Jaime and then, wham, Jaime kills him just so he could escape.
  • Not that it did Jaime any good, as he was caught the next scene. I suppose Nikolaj Coster-Waldau must have something to do this season.
  • I liked Jaime's line about having to betray one oath to keep another. How true!
  • I'm stunned that Cersei was actually a nice person in this episode, both towards Sansa and Tyrion. I could almost, but not quite, sympathize with her. She showed apprehension regarding Joffrey, even if she loves her son. And she tells Sansa that she shouldn't love anyone, except her children. Poignant, in a weird sort of way.
  • The Qarth scenes were by far the oddest, but since they're made up for the show to have Dany something to do, it's not surprising. But really, Xaro conspiring with the Warlocks to become king, stealing the dragons and then offing the Thirteen... What's the point? And will we get to see all the visions at the House of the Undying? (I'm guessing not)
  • I hope adorable Doreah isn't dead, and that she isn't a traitor.
  • Yay, no needless sex scenes!
  • It's been a while since we saw Varys. I miss him.

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