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[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion

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1) Jaimeanderthal - His murder was extremely out of character for him. Some of you have been like "ZOMGZ BUT HE KICKED A BABBY OUT OF A TOWER THATS WORSE CUZ BABBYS R CUTE". Please, killing bran was an inescapable necessity for preserving his love life and the kingslayer part -- need we mention Aerys was a MAD KING who burned people alive in his throne room, and was highly unfit to rule? What Jaime would do for love... well, I can tell you killing his cousin was not (nor was it portrayed as such) killing "for love", it was killing because he was greedy (or "evil") -- and that is completely out of character for him. Jaime is awesome, and a great character has now been ruined.

:agree: I have read lots of comments about this, including how it was 'desperate' Jaime killing a very, very distant cousin and therefore it was not really an issue, and I've thought about it a lot in the context of the TV series Yes, I accept that the invented Alton was a very, very distant cousin - but my initial reaction remains the same. This change is completely out of character and was quite unecessary. Jaime is still a Lannister, and although he has a very complex relationship with his siblings and with Tywin, 'family' and 'family honour' definitely does mean something to him. His idea of family honour is one of the reasons for his final rift with Tywin, and as we see in AFFC, Jaime also lies about Ser Cleos's death to his Aunt Genna in order to spare her feelings. It also sits completely at odds with Jaime's fight scene with Ned Stark in series 1, where Jaime's sense of honour would not let him finish off Ned after one of the Lannister guards stabs Ned in the leg, because it wouldn't have been fair or clean.

Book Jaime might have knocked Alton unconscious as part of an escape attempt, but he would not have killed him. I think that action has somewhat spoiled the Jaime / Brienne dynamic too - after Harrenhal, Brienne can understand his reasons for killing Aerys, and she can also understand (but not approve) his reasons for shoving Bran out the window. But I cannot see how the Brienne we know and love from the books would ever come to have any sympathy or feelings for a Jaime who had murdered his cousin in cold blood. She'd have let him and his hand just rot. Jaime killing Alton is one of the very few book-to-TV changes that I totally disagree with.

Edited by Currawong

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How sad. Peter Dinklage I can agree with, but there are far more standout performances in the series at this stage than Kit Harrington. Alfie Allen, Charles Dance, Maisie Willams, to name three.

Shouldn't there be separate nominees for Lead Actor and Best Supporting?

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Shouldn't there be separate nominees for Lead Actor and Best Supporting?

There is a separate list for Lead Actor and Supporting Actor but since Game of Thrones doesn't really have a Lead anymore all the nominees are in the Supporting Actor category.

How sad. Peter Dinklage I can agree with, but there are far more standout performances in the series at this stage than Kit Harrington. Alfie Allen, Charles Dance, Maisie Willams, to name three.

Women have their own category. Emilia Clarke and Lena Headey are representing GoT.

Edited by Evamitchelle

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Shouldn't there be separate nominees for Lead Actor and Best Supporting?

As a SAG actor, due to the ensemble nature of the show, I can tell you none of them will be submitted for Lead Actor by their management. There really aren't any Single Main Male or Female characters in the show.

They also stand a better chance of winning in the supporting category, (and that has a LOT to do with it as well - which is why Tommy Lee Jones was submitted for Best Supporting Actor in the '94 Oscars for The Fugitive (and WON), even though he has as much or more screen time than Harrison Ford.)

Edited by bardgal

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I find Cat super frustrating at times, but Michelle Fairley is doing an amazing job bringing her to life, in all her frustratingness, wish she was nominated. I would have her and Sophie Turner, I think, despite being a longtime Lena Headey fan (I think she's good too, I just think Fairley and Turner are standouts right now).

Edited by Jolene Brown

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i love this series didnt read the books but its amazing , i know people must be unhappy at some changes from series to books but some are good and some are probs bad for people who read the books but just enjoy the good moments and carry on watching this amazing well casted series

Edited by wotad

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I find Cat super frustrating at times, but Michelle Fairley is doing an amazing job bringing her to life, in all her frustratingness, wish she was nominated. I would have her and Sophie Turner, I think, despite being a longtime Lena Headey fan (I think she's good too, I just think Fairley and Turner are standouts right now).

Emilia Clarke and Lena Headey,Sophie Turner, and Michelle Fairley are all good but i hope Emilia wins

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2) Tywin-or-you-die-or-you-give-Arya-your-dinner - A man who would have a full barracks of women rape a woman of lower class to prove to his son that all women of lower class are whores in that they want a lord for their money -- this type of man would not give a serving girl his meal. He would certainly not COMPARE his daughter to a serving wench.

Isn't is pretty clear at this point that he knows she was born and raised in a noble house? He also knew she was from the North.

He might not have met her before the war, but he certainly knew Ned from King's Landing at the end of Robert's rebellion. It's also entirely possible that he saw Ned's father, brother and/or Lyanna before their deaths. They've gone out of their way in the series to tell us how much Arya has "the look" of the Starks -- from Yhorrin (sp?) saying that to Ned to Ned telling her how much she looked like Lyanna.

It might have dawned on him that this 10 year old noble born Northern girl who looks like the Starks running around 500 miles from home is the same missing Stark girl they're looking for (and might be able to exchange for Jaime). He is ceratinly much more familiar and friendly with her now -- after he had a conversation we did not hear with Littlefinger that began with Littlefinger describing his conversation with Catlin about exchanging Arya and Sansa for Jaime. If Tywin didn't know who she was at first, I bet he knows by the time he gives her his mutton.

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I'm terribly sorry to ask this, if it has been asked before (don't want to read 28 pages!) But during the thirteen scene where Pyat Pree slits everyone's throats, did he kill Xaro as well? because right after that scene Xaro was nowhere to be seen.

No he didn't. Pyat only killed the members of the 13 seated at the table. Pyat is in league with Xaro, who is now effectively the new king of Qarth.

Edited by Sun

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Isn't is pretty clear at this point that he knows she was born and raised in a noble house? He also knew she was from the North.

He might not have met her before the war, but he certainly knew Ned from King's Landing at the end of Robert's rebellion. It's also entirely possible that he saw Ned's father, brother and/or Lyanna before their deaths. They've gone out of their way in the series to tell us how much Arya has "the look" of the Starks -- from Yhorrin (sp?) saying that to Ned to Ned telling her how much she looked like Lyanna.

It might have dawned on him that this 10 year old noble born Northern girl who looks like the Starks running around 500 miles from home is the same missing Stark girl they're looking for (and might be able to exchange for Jaime). He is ceratinly much more familiar and friendly with her now -- after he had a conversation we did not hear with Littlefinger that began with Littlefinger describing his conversation with Catlin about exchanging Arya and Sansa for Jaime. If Tywin didn't know who she was at first, I bet he knows by the time he gives her his mutton.

Does Tywin know that Cersei lost Arya? I didn't think so, so I don't see Tywin making that connection, because he believes Arya to be in Kings Landing.

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Does Tywin know that Cersei lost Arya? I didn't think so, so I don't see Tywin making that connection, because he believes Arya to be in Kings Landing.

I also remember TV LF telling Tywin "a proposition from Lady Stark about her DAUGHTERS" right after Arya left the room. Note the plural. I don't think Cersei wanted it known that Arya was missing, so she probably instructed LF as such.

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I also remember TV LF telling Tywin "a proposition from Lady Stark about her DAUGHTERS" right after Arya left the room. Note the plural. I don't think Cersei wanted it known that Arya was missing, so she probably instructed LF as such.

Exactly. I really do not think Tywin has been informed of Arya's escape. He certainly was not when Tyrion first got to Kings Landing, Tyrion says as much to Cersei when he first gets to the Capitol. Also, I imagine that Tyrion was trying to find Arya before Tywin finds out, and if Tyrion can't find her by the time Tywin learns the truth...well then, it was Cersei's fault for letting her escape.

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Does Tywin know that Cersei lost Arya? I didn't think so, so I don't see Tywin making that connection, because he believes Arya to be in Kings Landing.

No he doesn't. If he did, he would have locked up this serving girl from the off just to satisfy a germ of a suspicion that she might be Arya Stark. He has figured out a lot and knows she's not a stonemason's daughter but as far as he is concerned, the Stark's are all accounted for. My guess is that it will dawn on him at one point, probably when he finally gets to King's Landing. Either that or there will be some action scene where Tywin finally hears of Arya's escape from KL just as she is going to make her escape from Harrenhall.

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They've never said, but she was 12-13 in the book, I think. She seems 15-16 to me in the show, and the actress is 16. All the kids are aged-up from what they were in the books.

For various legal reasons due to child labor and adult content laws.

I , for one, wished , George had not used that middle ages, well pre 20th century , cultural norm in the novels.

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She was 11 in the books and 13 in the show IIRC. She should be around 14 now.

According to the wiki, she was born in 286AL, making her of an age with Joffrey and 12 when Ned dies in 298AL. I would say she's closer to 15, going on 16, in the show, because Joffrey is clearly supposed to be 16 or so, and they're playing Arya as a 13-14 year old (Sansa is 2+ years older than her). They've never said specific ages on the show, but it isn't hard to see.

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So in the show Joffry is already ruling independently? If he's 16? I remember people made a rather big deal out of this in the book (like Tyrion thinking he'd better get the hell out of there before Joffry's 16), can't remember if it was mentioned in the show.

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For various legal reasons due to child labor and adult content laws.

I , for one, wished , George had not used that middle ages, well pre 20th century , cultural norm in the novels.

For me, I just have to try suspend my cultural bias in order to enjoy it and not get creeped-out. Like you said, the way we think of age-appropriateness now is wholly a product of the last century. My great-grandmother was married to my great-grandfather when she was 12; family lore talks of her waiting for him to go to work to sneak and play with her dolls, which is sad by today's standards, but marrying young like that was perfectly normal back then. You gave daughters to men who could provide for a family, not boys.

Edited by J.S. Crews

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So in the show Joffry is already ruling independently? If he's 16? I remember people made a rather big deal out of this in the book (like Tyrion thinking he'd better get the hell out of there before Joffry's 16), can't remember if it was mentioned in the show.

16 was age of majority in the book. Robb was 15 when AGoT started, 16 when named King in the North. They talk about Robert winning the throne 15 years ago. In the show, they say 17 years ago, meaning, in the show, Robb is 17 when AGoT started, 18 when named King in the North. Seems to me they've modernized the age of majority in the show's version of Westeros to 18, like we have it.

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