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[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion

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This show needs to be an hour and half or even two hours long per episode. Either that, or we need like 15+ episodes a season. I don't think they can continue in this fashion for the next books. There are just too many characters and too much stuff going on. Even this season feels rushed and skipping around all over the place. When you break each episode down into minutes per character its kind of disappointing. We only see characters for like a few minutes a week. WE NEED LONGER EPISODES HBO!

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Pyat Pree's cloning trick is a little annoying, but they have certainly upped the ante on the Qarth scenes. The council massacre was definitely unexpected, but I thought it suited the story well. XXD and Pyat Pree need to be fried to a crisp.

Doreah's disappearance is still a mystery. Did XXD persuade her to betray Daenerys?

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Lolol!

Oh and what do they mean two episodes left? I thought we had three??

it was an obvious mistake. Next week is "Prince of Winterfell" followed by "Blackwater" and "Valar Morghulis". My dad nearly had a coronary when he saw that. He's addicted to the show and is already pissed there is only 10 episodes a season. He hasn't read the books but is a spoiler junkie. I've had to re-assure him the past couple of weeks that yes, bad things will happen to Jaime and Theon. ;)

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Am I a paranoid lunatic or did "Talisa" and Roose exchange look?

Loved the Qarth changes. Pyat Pree is even creepier.

Why are they making Cersei nicer? Once she gives people to Qyburn to experiment on, there's no loving her.

Non book readers are about to learn an important lesson about this story. If you don't actually see someone die...

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With Alton's murder, Jamie is digging an even deeper hole for him to crawl out of in order for viewers to change their opinions about him. I guess readers were not really given the opportunity to warm up to him until ASoS anyway, but interesting deviation they took with Jamie's escape attempt.

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I loved Arya fingering the knife and looking at Tywin's throat...

I think it's a pity that we lost the part where Tyrion sent people to rescue Jaime, but can live with the loss.

Okay with the change in why Catelyn frees Jaime. I like the book version better, but I think this makes sense for the series.

I thought Ygritte was hilarious! Distracting Jon with all the sex talk and then leading him into the trap. Still think it's a pity to skip where Jon is ordered to do what the Half-Hand orders.

Bummed that they changed one of my favorite lines in the entire series. Cersei: "Love is a poison. A sweet poison, yes, but it will kill you all the same."

Glad that they kept the part where Cersei tells Sansa about Jaime and the delivery room. I always loved how she periodically forgets that she's supposed to pretend that Jaime is not the father of her kids and talks about him that way.

Like the Qarth changes--much more interesting for a tv series. Though, again, I always prefer the book version

Edited by nara

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two big problems with episode 7..

jamie killing a relative in cold blood! george's jamie lannister would never share a moment with a youth like that then brutally kill him..getting rid of bran could be considered holding the kingdom together but his actions on tonight episode are really out of touch with the character

and

cercei breaking down in tears over joff being a monster. tv version of cercei is much softer and no where near the psycho/paranoid bitch george wrote her as. shame the writers have to mess the fundamentals personas of our beloved lannisters... jamie and joff are overblown while tywin and cercei are softened

it will be more difficult to accept brienne and jamies forthcoming trusting relationship given tonights unnecessary brutality

Edited by craftadvisory

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Also, I really liked how they got a lot of Westerosi history into this episode. But I'm afraid non-readers probably found it boring :(

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Awesome episode, thought all the Winterfell, Catelyn/Jaime and Qarth scenes were all really well done. Whoever the actress is that plays Ygritte is doing a fantastic job

"You know nothing Jon Snow." :cool4:

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Regarding Qhorin and Jon:

My theory is that the Lord of Bones captures Qhorin too and while they're captive and alone Qhorin knows they're *beep* so he tells Jon to pretend to go turncloak and suggest they face off. This could either turn out to be a really good change or a disastrous one.

Yeah that is what I'm thinking too. IIRC there was already an earlier scene where Qhorin talked to Jon about duty. My guess that he gets caught too and urges Jon to do *whatever* they say so he can earn what Mance is up to.

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HA! I called Jon Snow getting "blue balls" last week and Ygritte confirms. :P It was a good scene between the two because while her teasing is fun, it re-established Jon's vows and shows the diiferences bewteen the Watch and the Free People.

Very excited to hear the Mountain mention the BwB. I'm not quite sure what Tywin's endgame is with his treatment of Arya. But because the actors have such good chemistry and it gives new viewers some exposition, I can dig it.

I do like the writers putting the Karstarks in now rather than last season. It's fresher this way.

Good episode overall. I might have to just put in my sig "It's an adaptation, it's not going to be completely faithful to the book!"

eta: Forgot to finish a point.

Couldn't disagree with you more. Those Jon/Ygritte scenes were awful. It felt like Ygritte was a hooker trying to land a customer. The writers like to emphasize the celibacy of the watch. They did it earlier with Craster (which was never in the books).

You're "it's an adaption" logic could justify the changes made in season 1. But this season's changes have gone way beyond necessity but rather to soothe the writers' egos. And pretty much all the changes have made the story weaker.

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This is the first episode in either season when I ever noticed scenes of just a few seconds. I am fairly certain that they rarely happened before, if ever.

HBO seems to have gone bold and decided to use more of a soap opera format, as evidenced both in the changes and in the more flexible scene length. A good thing in and of itself, IMO.

Tywin seems to be enjoying his little game of guesswork with Arya. He know she is hiding something but does not thing it will be dangerous to him. Uncharacteristically reckless from him, but as he says himself, he is facing his age and mortality. A change that is working so far.

As is Daenerys/Qarth. When I saw the scene after the killing of the 13, I thought that it was for the best; the books are way too vague and symbolic when it comes to Qarth.

Jaime... is problematic. The changes really caused damage here. He is now shown to be utter scum, killing a relative who idolizes him just to have a shot at fleeing. That will not only make his half-redemption that much less convincing, it also makes Karstark's actions slightly more reasonable. This is the first (and so far only) serious misstep from the TV series so far.

I'm willing to bet that Qhorin Halfhand spoke with Jon off-camera between the two episodes where he was seen. Jon is giving Ygritte way too much leeway and being way too cool with it for me to think all is as it seems.

While I believe that there were similar lines in the books, I couldn't help but notice that Cersei does a very poor job at hinding her belief that Jaime is the father of her sons. She all but told Sansa so, and seems not to have even noticed it. I must assume that Sansa heard the rumors, and by now she must have at least half a belief in them.

Jorah is being given a bit more evidence, which is good... even if I can't quite figure out his scene with Qhaite.

I wish Tyrion had more time on-screen in this episode. Peter is such a good actor.

Not sure about who the orphans will end up being. Might be the Frey cousins, or perhaps the Reeds.

Theon is being fairly faithful to the books. I find myself wondering if Cleftjaw _is_ Ramsay somehow. Roose Bolton never named his bastard, could he be Ironborn?

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I liked the changes to the Bran/Rickon "death" more dramatic and horrifying.

Love Ygritte, she nailed the famous line. Hope she's as attractive under all the fur.

I do not approve of the changes in Quarth Qarth.

I seriously hope we get to see the visions in the HoTU next week.

But. I've heard no word on casting for Rhaegar/Aerys/Elia, so I'm guessing next week is where I cry "fuck this shit" as they botch (arguably) the most pivotal scene in Daenerys' journey.

Edited by Malgarroth

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I think they "jumped the shark" on Dany's story . too much deviation . . JMO everything else is solid. 9/10.

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Couldn't disagree with you more. Those Jon/Ygritte scenes were awful. It felt like Ygritte was a hooker trying to land a customer. The writers like to emphasize the celibacy of the watch. They did it earlier with Craster (which was never in the books).

You're "it's an adaption" logic could justify the changes made in season 1. But this season's changes have gone way beyond necessity but rather to soothe the writers' egos. And pretty much all the changes have made the story weaker.

The reason Ygritte was so over the top in her attempted seduction was intentional in my opinion. She was distracting Jon while walking him into a trap.

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I don't mind Cercei admitting that Joff is a monster (more or less). She does it while also telling Sansa how important it is to love one's children no matter what, and that feels consistent with her character in the books.

I agree with Fez that PD/Tyrion was noticeably absent in this episode. He's been so great this year. Markedly better than S1 in my opinion.

I really want to watch an episode with Trebla's dad.

Yes, there was some kind of something or other between Roose and Jeyne when he left. I can't quite say what it was...a recognition of some kind? Not sure.

The Theon scenes (kinda like in book 5) are owning.

I love Measter Leuwin.

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Am I a paranoid lunatic or did "Talisa" and Roose exchange look?

My impression was that Roose is noticing that things are starting to fall apart for the Starks (ie., the discontent among the men about Robb's interest in "Talisa," the Karstarks, etc.)

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