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[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion

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I believe he has the honor of penning just one episode a season, and it was confirmed long ago that he is writing the Blackwater episode (2.9). Also, I think D&D were given credit for the writing during the opening credits, just as all the other episodes displayed the one(s) responsible with the task of writing the episode script.

Yeah, this exactly. GRRM did not write this episode. Benioff and Weiss were given the credits, and GRRM only wrote the one, 2x09.

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I could've sworn he said he was writing the 7th episode for this season. I heard it from him in a past interview. I don't have hard evidence so think what you will, but that's what I am pretty sure about.

He's writing episode 7 of Season 3, not Season 2.

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Are people really going to blow a casket every time there's a deviation from the books?

Yes, yes they are... :bang:

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I liked the Tywin/Arya scenes. Don't get me wrong they definitely seemed out of character regarding Book - Tywin, but if you ignore that fact it is easy to really enjoy that scene. There are so many talking points and implications from that scene alone that i think it was worth it to change the character of Tywin in order to incorporate it. Arya and Tywin are some of the very best actors in this show which must have added to the appeal of this new, more human Tywin and the change in the storyline to accommodate it.

Like many of you i loved how Tywin was described in the books; he would occasionally threaten to smile and it was terrible to behold, but these scenes, based entirely on their own merit, are amazing and are some of the better changes from the books.

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@The Smiling Eye

The producers. Benioff and Weiss, were credited with writing tonight's episode. GRRM wrote Episode 9, the Battle of the Blackwater.

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Oops. Double post. Everything is slow tonight, so I pressed "post" too many times. Another reason everyone should donate for the server upgrades to asoiaf.westeros.org.

Edited by Ravenhair

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Pretty good episode. Lot of stuff I liked, some I didn't care for, but overall pretty well done.

Good stuff:

Arya and Tywin. Maisie and Charles play off each other really well, and while I doubt Tywin would be talking so much to his cupbearer, I really don't care because it's so well done. Also, that long shot of Harrenhal really looked fantastic.

Theon and Winterfell. Dagmer (Finchy) is clearly taking the role of Reek, which is fine for now. Allen is great as Theon, and I loved that Maester Luwin continues to verbally own Theon. I doubt any new viewers will really believe Bran and Rickon are dead, especially with them mentioning the farm children, but that's not really a big deal.

Sansa. Glad they're giving her more screentime, and her short scene with the Hound was pretty good. Also, her scene with Cersei was damn close to how I remember it in teh book, which is usually a good thing.

Tyrion and Cersei. GOod scene, though obviously they're really softening Cersei a lot. Still, I thought it was well acted, and in the univerise of the show, it makes sense.

Jaime. I'm not sure how I feel about the kinslaying. Jaime clearly didn't care one bit in the books when Cleos died, but that's also not nearly teh same as killing him. Jaime does have a complicated honor system, but this felt pretty dark, even for him. Still, I enjoyed the scene between him and Cately, and I'm glad they included at least part of the latter half of the conversation that they didn't get to last season. Still, would have liked for Jaime to go into the details of Brandon and Rickard.

Littlefinger. Thank god he wasn't in this episode too.

Stuff that was meh

Jon Snow and Ygritte. I really don't see the point of this. I guess they want to have some romantic tension between the two early, but it really feels like a waste of time. And if Qhorin is such a great ranger, how the hell hasn't he found them yet? I liked the delivery of "you know nothing Jon Snow", but most of their dialog was just too much of Ygritte teasing him. Would have preferred the Bael story. Mostly, I just don't get why they couldn't have Jon release her last episode without the whole chase and keep it like in the book. This whole new sequence, especially with him getting captured, really makes Jon look like a complete nincompoop.

Robb and Talisa. Just a boring romance that I don't care about.

Stuff I don't get

Varys. Where the fuck is he? I feel like D'angelo when I'm watching, I just want to shout out "WHERE THE FUCK IS VARYS?". I don't think he's appeared since episode 3.

Qarth. What a mess. I didn't even care for Qarth that much in the books, but this tv version is just a giant clusterfuck. Don't care for the ridiculous power grabs and twists, and does anybody really care who the King of Qarth is? Or what that even means? THis whole plotline feels like it was made to be action packed adn give Dany someting to do, but I find it hammy, and the time could have been better spent on Stannis.

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Only if Roose sired Ramsay when he was 8, could I see Dagmer being Ramsay. Otherwise, no way. Dagmer is too old to be Ramsay. I think D&D simply merged the two characters as far as the events of ACoK go. Ramsay may make an appearance in the season finale.

The actor who plays Dagmer was born in Dec. 1969, so he's 42. How old is the guy who plays Roose?

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And where'ssss Ramsay? Theon flayed, er... burned the children without him! We got the green light from Roose, but where is the bastard of Bolton??

What makes you think he isn’t there?

I don't even know what to discuss. Nothing happened in this episode. Transition episode I suppose. If Dany doesn't hurry up and get into the House of the Undying I'm going to scream!

Scream, then: she won’t get there for three more episodes.

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I know probably I'm being a little whiny bitch, but I understand some deviation from the original plot, but this thing is getting way far from the story.

I don't see any difference between a "tv adaptation" and horrible fanfic

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Yeah, this was the soap-opera episode of the season. Let's hope for a strong finish though.

My only real issue is with the Jon Snow story arc. Firstly: No Orell?? No eagle? It's not like the audience needs to be introduced to skinchanging at this point, but Orell was a pretty huge part of this whole scouting mission. He's what they were really up against and he's really what screwed them over in the long run. An eagle following Quorin's group around would have made a point and opened up what was happening for an explanation next season.

Second: Jon Snow in the novel may not always make the best decisions, but he makes the ones that need to be made. So far in the series he has done nothing except what people tell him to do. Right now, he's basically looking extremely stupid for losing a prisoner twice and causing the scouting mission to fail. That is a HUGE deviation from the book.

Third: Quorin is probably still going to sacrifice himself in the same way as the book, but it's not going to be the same. Quorin has already explained to the audience he is a dead-man, and it's only going to look like Jon got him executed.

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Part of me wants to complain about all the deviations from the book. Then I realize that they have ten one hour shows to cover the whole book. Obviously they have to make changes and at the same time, make it enjoyable.

The Tywin/Arya interaction was fascinating. Arya's being led by Tywin and possibly is too easily falling into his trap, but it is entertaining and shows something of Tywin's personality we haven't seen before.

The Winterfell scenes eliminated some things and people, but got you where you needed to be. The tarred bodies were done perfectly.

Ygrette was fantastic. I had a great time watching her make Jon Snow uncomfortable. My only concern is how will they work in the instructions Halfhand gives Jon in the book.

As for Qarth, that was a real departure from the book, but it worked in enough elements from the book and was entertaining in the manner it did so.

Would I have preferred it to be more faithful to the book? Yes, but I don't think HBO is going to go for a season that runs 52 weeks, much as I'd like them to.

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I was hoping the Bran and Rickon scene at the end would be shocking, all my non reader friends knew right away it was the orphans, if they didnt mention the orphans this episode it would have been better

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I loved the Cersei and Tyrion scene. I am one of the harshest critics of Benioff and Weiss, but Cersei is the one thing that they have done that surpasses George's vision of the character. On the show she is an actual human being vs. the crazy shrew on the book series.

That said, I was pretty bored throughout this episode. I can't put a finger on the reason, but it just dragged for me.

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Is it just me or did it seem like the last scene didnt explain if that was supposed to be Bran and Rickon. Theon said 'what happens to people who dont do as I say' more or less and then they roll out two dead bodies, one looks like it could have been a grown mans. I was watching with a non-reader and he thought it was the people who talked to Theon at the village, and I couldnt really just tell hin that it was supposed to be BnR. They rushed that scene I thought... Anyone see sopmething I didnt? IS that supposed to be BnR?

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I just wanted to let everyone in on a little delicious piece of info.

GRRM wrote this episode.

So, let's see, that would be the adaptation that we need to learn what it means, please? :P

Edited by House of White and White

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Honostly i think tv tywin is a perfect representation of book tywin... Or what i always assumed he was loke.. You learn nothing of who tywin really is until feast and dance throufh genna and keven Tyrion, jamie, and cersei's views are pretty skewed... Tonight was the best showing when he told arya he was fond of her but she still needs to watch herself... She would be his almost perfect child...

Dany storyline is actully good considering its a snorefest in the book...

The winterfall arc is awesome besides the fct were mising my reek...

Was bored with the cersei scenes.. But the sansa hound and sansa shae scenes were good..

Jamie killing alton wasn out of charcter at all... The only people he really cards about are him cersei tyrion and his father... Then maybe his kids? He doesnt start being nice till after he looses the hand..BUT wtf at cateyln freeing him tonight? Whats he reasoning? She isnt even desperat or ccrazy enoufh yet... Now shes just being a bitch by freeing him....

Their ruining my boy jons storyline though... Dumbingdown his character and such.. Yeah the girl playing ygritte is an "awesome actress" and hot but seriously the storyline is stupid...

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I know everyone loves to pick the series apart but I am absolutely in awe of the acting talent that every single episode produces. I mean, these people are amazing in their roles. Even the deviations, to me, are awesome. I had a problem at first getting used to the deviations because season 1 seemed pretty true to the book. But now I just sit back and enjoy the new twists and turns. Kind of makes it new all over again.

I thought the Qarth scenes were amazing. I was a little lost with Quaithe but the twist of Pyatt and Xaro really was great.

Catelyn was fantastic and Jaime's humor was spot on (although I'm still eagerly awaiting to hear him call "the beast" a wench). The scene with Tyrion and Cersei confused me because I don't remember anything like that happening in the book but it was nice to see the interaction between them. Jon/Ygritte's back and forth was great. I think it would be hard to capture the internal struggles Jon goes through and I think they do a good job with story.

And can I get an Amen - miracles do happen - I actually enjoyed Shae's character this episode. Although.... why was the Hound in Sansa's room?

Ok - so one minor complaint - where is Varys?? We've seen much of LF but no Varys. Bummer.

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