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[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion

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why am I spoiled brat, I could post 10 things from this episode that make no sense, will make no sense or are just plain cliched and/or boring

a. why would tywin trust Arya

b. Why will the wildings accept Jon

c. Why will the NW allow Jon back in

d. how can 3 cat sized dragons do anything

e. why doesnt dany just buy a ship cause she only has like 20 people in her khal, why does she need a fleet of ships

f. why is someone going to Valeria

g. did jon just turn his cloak without orders? He is a deserter, and should have his heads cut off

h. WHy does cersei hate her own son? and why will she care when tyrion kills him supposedly

i. Why did LF go to a Usurpers camp with the bones of ned stark? did he somehow know cat was going to be there? if so how could he have know that

j. how did Theon lose Bran and hodor osha's trail?

You bring up some interesting points, but a lot of the stuff you are complaining about occur in the books too. The NW allowed Jon back in the books even after he killed the Halfhand. Theon lost Bran and Osha's trail in the books as well. Did you write GRRM telling him what an outrage it was then? Also, keep in mind we don't know what will happen with Jon Snow yet. Let the story line develop before tearing it apart and maybe you won't "look so f***ing grim all the time"

EDIT: don't know the rules on language in the forum so I censored myself

Edited by Tewks44

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as usual, the exploding heads of the purists is almost as entertaining as the show.

It truly is. The purists I can, at least, sympathize with, however. It's the borderline inarticulate, short-sighted complainers I sometimes don't know whether to laugh at or choke lifeless, though.

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a. he made her eat the food to make sure it wasn't poisoned

b. he's probably either going to escape and receive his "orders" from Qhorin or Qhorin is alos captured and he receives his orders then. Either way I'm not worried because in Ep 10's teaser list it says Jon proves himself to Qhorin

c. how is this even a problem yet?

d. they are the size of dogs at the end of this book so not that big of a deal

e. I think Jorah says he'll look for "a" ship in ep 5

f. I think Quaithe said he's sailing past Valyria

g. no I doubt he has truned cloak yet

h. I don't think she hates him she's just scared of what he become

i. Varys and LF have informers everywhere

j. I think in the book they send the wolves out through a stream or river and then double back to Winterfell into the crypts.

a.he killed 20 of his own men, a little torture would have solved the problem rather simply

b. QH SHOULD doubt Jons loyalty after disappearing for a few days with a hot wilding that he probably should have killed

c. if his turncloaking is suspect so would his coming back

d. one dragon was supposed to have burned down the HotU, a couple of weeks ago all they could do was charbroil a Kabob

e. last week she wanted lots of ships, any capitan would gladly take a moneymaker like dragons for a ride

f. I thought she said TO, I will check

g. his brother dont know that and QH will have plenty of reason to suspect it, Y certainly would try to use that against JS with QH, she just laid the story out she would tell you think QH would believe JS in that situation

h. which goes completely against Cersei who two scenes earlier was telling Sansa about loving your children

i. so renly is going to let the Master of coins for the lannister king meet with the mother of another usurper king, illogical

j. ok in retrospect I can see how this works, theon stopped following cause he had the alternatives to use, but still doesnt make sense how they lost the trail when the kids were in the village

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You bring up some interesting points, but a lot of the stuff you are complaining about occur in the books too. The NW allowed Jon back in the books even after he killed the Halfhand. Theon lost Bran and Osha's trail in the books as well. Did you write GRRM telling him what an outrage it was then? Also, keep in mind we don't know what will happen with Jon Snow yet. Let the story line develop before tearing it apart and maybe you won't "look so f***ing grim all the time"

EDIT: don't know the rules on language in the forum so I censored myself

grimi? I dont think that word means what you think it means

:drunk:

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Jaime other awful acts all had reasons. He tried to kill Bran to save Cersei and her children. He says as much. Our heroic soldiers do the same thing every day. They kill to protect their families. In a MUCH less direct way. Bran sees something that will kill Jaime and everyone he loves. No question, no trial, do not pass go.

Jaime killed Aerys because he was about to kill everyone in King's Landing.

This is what makes his face turn acceptable. Killing his cousin was for Jaime and Jaime alone. He said as much in their conversation.

It is a huge difference, and one I don't care for.

.

Book Jaime didn't care about Cersei's kids, just her. What about his "chastisement" of Ned by killing Jory and the other Northmen? Who did that serve?

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hmmm lets see Lord Tywin, some infiltrator got into your inner sanctum and killed a trusted Lt with a poison dart

your cupbearer was taken out of a group of prisoners, is a lying overeducated northern noble child who by your own accounts is courageous

I know lets hang 20 of our own menand not not at the elephant giving us mutton

Soup. It's soup she's giving them.

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I think Cersei is gaming Tyrion. She is being insincere, which shouldn't be a surprise. It seems to have worked given Tyrion's reaction at the end of the scene. Cersei is very clever; it's interesting how this scene is juxtaposed with Tywin's comparison of Arya to her.

Ooh, I like this line of thinking. And lol at that are they going to hug of something moments. Some nonreaders think Tyrion was trying to get in her bed LOL!

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last week she wanted lots of ships, any capitan would gladly take a moneymaker like dragons for a ride

You do get that reckless fire-breathing animals are a bad idea on a wooden ship with canvas sails, right? *MANY* captains turned her down in the book.

Edited by J.S. Crews

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Loved it. Things picking up for the climax!

Book purists need to understand this isnt the books. It the show. Oddly all the same posters who teeth gnash and whine every week in these threads keep watching. You'd think if it bothered them so much they stop.

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For those of you who are complaining that Tywin is ordering his own men to be killed, has it occurred to you that the corpses we saw might just be prisoners like Jaqen who simply wear Lannister armor and serve the war effort instead of wasting away in a prison cell? We know Tywin wanted to put these prisoners to good use, but I honestly do not think Tywin hesitates in killing these prisoners-turned-soldiers in hopes of finding the assassin. They were never Lannister men to begin with.

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I don't care about most of the changes, as I know the show is a different character from the books. I think Dany, Arya and Tywin, and Jaime changes work and are pretty entertaining but WTF are they doing with Jon? Rose Leslie is great as Ygritte but the scenes are just jarring. The first of the changes that have really taken me aback for how wrong they feel, especially the ending.

Edited by awesome possum

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grimi? I dont think that word means what you think it means

:drunk:

from dictionary.com

Grim: stern and admitting of no appeasement or compromise

I feel like that's fairly accurate to your overall attitude about the show, but in all fairness I was trying to force in a quote, so perhaps the word isn't a perfect match. Either way, you do have some good observations, I'll give you that, but the good observations are offset by your many bad observations such as.

"Why will the NW allow Jon back in" - this is something that happens in season 3 of the book, and the whole Jon getting let back in is a pretty major point of conflict. I don't really understand why you're complaining about this because in the books he kills the Halfhand and they still let him back in.

"how can 3 cat sized dragons do anything" - the motivation in taking the dragons was to get Dany to come to the house of the undying. I sincerely doubt they intended to use the dragons to wage war on their enemies.

"why doesnt dany just buy a ship cause she only has like 20 people in her khal, why does she need a fleet of ships" - you are assuming Dany has money to buy a ship. Ships are very expensive, and although Dany's host is generous to her, she has essentially zero personal wealth. Plus, how is she going to invade Westeros with 20 people and "3 cat sized dragons"

"WHy does cersei hate her own son? and why will she care when tyrion kills him supposedly" - there is a difference between grief and hate. I think Cersei is sad because of what her son has become, but that doesn't mean she does not love him.

"how did Theon lose Bran and hodor osha's trail?" - it's explained in the books. Sure it would have been nice if the show had a narrator that could explain these details for the viewers, but this is a hit show on HBO, not an animated companion series to the books.

edited for formatting

Edited by Tewks44

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Book purists need to understand this isnt the books. It the show. Oddly all the same posters who teeth gnash and whine every week in these threads keep watching. You'd think if it bothered them so much they stop.

Ah yes, but masochists do SO enjoy suffering an hour of something they don't like, so that they can spend days and weeks being miserable, hurt and angry! And then they go through it all again a week later ... Obviously much nicer than simply finding the channel button or the Off switch.

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I have one problem - only one - with this episode. The "deaths" of Bran and Rickon were not a driving factor in Catelyn's release of Jaime. I understand that the TV show wanted to have a great cliffhanger, but what she does makes so much more sense in the books as she believes that she's trying to save her two surviving daughters and her last children (besides Robb).

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Thought last week was one of the best yet, but watched tonight’s with a deep, sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach.

· Yeah, Jaime’s a king slayer, but that business of murdering his cousin??? Please! That’s a bit much, even for profane, unholy Jaime.

· Last week I loved Ygritte’s being a pistol and a spitfire, tonight she just got on my nerves. Jon may be naïve, but he’s not stupid. Where is Quorin HH? And Ghost?

· I hate, hate, hate all the Quarth plot twists – The whole Quarth plot was bad enough to start with, but this one is even worse. At least before we still had the dragons, and Irri, and Doreah. Now we only have Dany, but I will say I at least like that she’s being more realistic now about her situation and not going around crowing about all of her ‘names/self-bestowed titles’. But, who IS the henna artist wearing the mask who knows so much about Jorah???

· More intrigue between Tywin and Arya, though, which I really liked. But I wonder if she’s given herself away now, too much enthusiasm and knowledge about the dragons, and Tywin must surely know that Arya hasn’t ever been found, right? Or, did he leave KL even before that? But just a stupendous photo shot out the window at all the ruins of Harrenhal, though – very impressive.

· Have I mentioned yet this week how much I love Brienne? The best was when someone popped his head in the tent and addressed her as “woman”, which she followed by throwing it right back (“man”, same tone). Then, her face was in the background of Caitlyn’s head when Cat is talking to Jaime, and she still has ‘screen presence’, cutting her eyes back to look at Cat when Jaime delivers those low blows about Ned’s [alleged] affair. She’s just so [painfully] earnest!

· Good scene with Sandor and Sansa.

· Loved hearing Cercei bitch about Joffrey and have a more honest talk with Sansa. Both completely unrealistic, of course, and impossible to reconcile with the quite cruel Cercei of the first season where Sansa and her ‘traitor’ father were concerned.

I just don’t think this one held together very well – at all. I read a post above where somebody alluded to HBO making it into a soap opera, and I gotta say, my thoughts exactly. I hope next week is better, and I hope they don’t screw it up! Otherwise, it’ll make an even longer wait for Book VI.

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I have one problem - only one - with this episode. The "deaths" of Bran and Rickon were not a driving factor in Catelyn's release of Jaime. I understand that the TV show wanted to have a great cliffhanger, but what she does makes so much more sense in the books as she believes that she's trying to save her two surviving daughters and her last children (besides Robb).

As I stated earlier, the difference between the book and the show is that, in the book, Karstark is off on the march with Robb. We don't see his hatred until she's released Jaime. In the show, Robb is gone but Karstark is there, a direct threat. Everyone is getting drunk and increasingly rowdy, and it's quite obvious Jaime will not live out the night unless she takes a hand and gets him out of there.

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As I stated earlier, the difference between the book and the show is that, in the book, Karstark is off on the march with Robb. We don't see his hatred until she's released Jaime. In the show, Robb is gone but Karstark is there, a direct threat. Everyone is getting drunk and increasingly rowdy, and it's quite obvious Jaime will not live out the night unless she takes a hand and gets him out of there.

Yeah, it still makes sense in that regard, though a little extra motive wouldn't have hurt. She has a few reasons for doing it in the book doesn't she, or was it just for the girls? I can't quite remember.

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Y'all keep complaining about the lack of Ramsay in the Winterfell scenes as an influence to Theon, but I think you're being a little too loyal to the books to notice something I've become 100% convinced of.

Who is there to tell Theon he needs to execute Ser Rodrik Cassel? Dagmer. Dagmer's also there when he (offscreen) makes the decision to kill the innocent orphan boys. The show's been awful focused on Dagmer, for what a minor character he is in the books going forward, and I think that means he's gonna end up being Ramsay, which is why he's filling Reek's role now.

I have no idea how they'd explain what Bolton's bastard was doing on the iron islands, but I've made my theory and I'm sticking to it. Hi haters.

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