[Book Spoilers] EP 208 Discussion

[J_Crews]

When they announced Oona Chaplin joining the cast, they said she would play someone named Jeyne. At the time, the discussion (in the Casting discussion on this board) was whether she would be Jeyne Poole or Jeyne Westerling. Unless they've subsequently changed their minds, I think they will reveal her as Jeyne Westerling...

You may be right, but I'm not holding my breath, since they've been to Jeyne Westerling's home castle the Crag without her being found out. Honestly, I couldn't care less, though. Volantene noblewoman works for me. The point of the RW was never that Robb's young wife was a Westerling, but rather that he broke his word and married anyone who wasn't one of Walder Frey's girls.

[J_Crews]

I always felt the Ironborn were morons here. Yeah, your strength lies in the sea. You still went to war against the North and you aren't going to conquer it or be ready when Robb goes North by harrying a few villages and staying at sea. Either don't go to war or do it properly. Theon's chances weren't fantastic, but at least he committed to the hopeless war they started. Balon and Asha had learned absolutely nothing from Theon's brothers deaths and would've steered towards the same old end if not for Euron. But here Yara when they were alone went for different angle. A Ironbron dies at sea. She wants her brother to be an ironborn win or lose. Theon doesn't get this, he doesn't see how being Prince of Winterfell and Ironborn are two different things. Which is what his character arc is all about.

I like the Ironborn culture (as fiction, that is -- if they were real, they be some shitty neighbors to have), but Balon and crew in charge are morons. They should've taken Robb's deal, but assuaged their pride by demanding Robb cede them Sea Dragon Point, the Stony Shore (say, everything from the coast to 10-15 miles inland), and a chunk of the Rills.

In the interest of negotiation, I would've demanded Bear Island as well, all the while knowing they'd balk -- then I'd concede on it to show what a reasonable negotiator I was. :)

Edited May 21, 2012 by J.S. Crews

[StannisandDaeny]

Balon is blinded by his lust for vengeance over the sons he lost because he started his rebellion and completely unreasonable, even Damphair of all people admits it in one of his POVs, nuff said I think.

The episode was awesome! Many great dialogues, jokes (Varys is just SOOO good, Dolorous Ed as well) and lots of backstory: Stephen Dillane just nailed it this time around with the tale of the siege of Storm's End and the dialogue was perfect (past portrayals of Stannis were sometimes somewhat lacking, because of the writing mind you, 'cos Dillane does a great job). Karstark was awesome as well, I just love how they really do their best to find the perfect actors for the minor characters as well. My only gripes are that the Halfhand is severely less cool being captured like that and the Starks seem like total idiots now whereas you would have had more sympathy for them if they acted on emotion 'knowing' Bran and Rickon were dead. Jeyne should've also made the move, not Robb, 'cos I still feel it was a Westerling ploy (how did she NOT get pregnant anyway?) rather than pure coincidence. Either way after Episode 7 gave me some worries they're back with force with this episode 8.

Edited May 21, 2012 by StannisandDaeny

[Raksha the Demon]

Not a bad episode. I could have cheerfully done without seeing more Robb/Talisa scenes; but at least Roz didn't talk too much while standing in for Alayaya from the books.

Cersei was in better form in this episode - perhaps she just had to have somebody whipped to restore the confidence that was lagging in the last episode? It's not easy being queen...

Finally, a moment or two when I liked Asha-Yara. It started when she had her feet up on the Winterfell table; a pose that seemed very Asha-ish. Nice scene between her and Theon. Poor Theon is still trying to be both Stark - wanting to compensate the miller for murdering his foster-sons - and Ironborn by claiming credit for killing Bran and Rickon. Alfie Allen is extremely believable as Theon.

Tyrion is very much in love with Shae; and it seems fairly obvious to the viewer that she thinks he's cute, or gullible, but she certainly is nowhere near reciprocating his deep feelings for her.

The Jamie/Brienne Road Trip sets off in fine style! More of these two, less of Talisa and Robb, and I'd be a happy watcher!

The Dany/Jorah scene had a lovely view of the Mighty Cheekbones and Azure Eyes of Iain Glen, but not much else.

I really wanted to slap Robb upside the head for talking to his mother like that. Yes, he's a king; and he's done what to get his sisters back? On his watch, Winterfell has fallen to the Ironborn; (as far as they know) his little brothers are prisoners, of course Catelyn would take action to try to preserve her daughters' lives by freeing Jaime before the Karstarks killed him. Technically, Catelyn should not have flouted the authority of the King in the North; but she's his mother and still deserves more respect than he gave her; and I'd probably have done the exact same thing in her place.

Tywin's left Harrenhal in force and showed his continued admiration for the plucky girl cupbearer by giving her as a present to Gregor Clegane. That's so sweet. I can see how much she meant to him. A nice reminder that Tywin is still Tywin and doesn't really give a darn about the peasant help; even smart plucky ones. Maybe he thinks she'll domesticate the Mountain.

:cool4:

Edited May 21, 2012 by Raksha the Demon

[Roose Seal]

What a boring-ass episode.

Arya/Tywin : What a disappointing end to a great storyline. So Tywin just goes 'I need to go' and goes. That's it. And then Arya says "I need to escape" and she escapes. No tension, no suspense, nothing. All that incredible build-up for nothing. Lame.

Brienne/Jaime : Fun start for their road trip, excited to see more.

Theon/Yara : Okay but they made it way too obvious that the two boys were not Bran and Rickon. No suspense whatsoever there.

Tyrion: Fun scenes this week.

Robb/Talisa: Yaaaaawn. What's with the infodump about Volantis ?

Cersei : Alright.

Stannis/Davos : Enough with the backstory.

Dany : Jeez, go to the House of the Undying already!

All in all, this episode bored me to tears, ep 9 and 10 better be damn good or I'm not watching s3. This season has been extremely underwhelming.

Edited May 21, 2012 by The Lost Direwolf

[insertname]

Tywin's left Harrenhal in force and showed his continued admiration for the plucky girl cupbearer by giving her as a present to Gregor Clegane. That's so sweet. I can see how much she meant to him. A nice reminder that Tywin is still Tywin and doesn't really give a darn about the peasant help; even smart plucky ones. Maybe he thinks she'll domesticate the Mountain. :cool4:

I'm sorry but that's one of the main problems I have with this episode, because honestly it makes Tywin look like a fool. All those past episodes I though he knew who she was and just kept her around that way for his own specific reasons that were supposed to revealed later, and I was thrilled to see where this was going.

Yet now? Tywin realizes she's a highborn northern girl, yet make no move whatsoever to find out who she is? How many northern girls are running around in a war, I ask you? How come she was able to be captured when the Lannisters haven't even breached northern territory? How come that nobody told Tywin that Amory Lorch chased Arya five minutes before he got murdered? The show also lets Tywin assume he was the target of the murder where the way the killing happened clearly suggests he isn't (Lorch drops dead into his room with the dart already in his neck)

Tywin just appears to be big idiot instead of smart strategist. Way to ruin a role, imo.

[Pliskin]

Why do I always see Asha when I look at Oona Chaplin ?

And am I the only one ?

[StannisandDaeny]

Probably. Asha is neither dark-skinned nor very pretty. She doesn't even have long hair.

As for Tywin, giving Arya to the Mountain is probably his idea of making sure she stays where she is. Most girls would be too scared to run knowing Gregor would come after them. The Mountain will probably get a rap on the knuckles for letting her escape later and then is when it'll be revealed Tywin knew she was important.

Edited May 21, 2012 by StannisandDaeny

[Arataniello]

More flattening of the plot to give the producers more screen-time for what they want to show, which in this episode was Robb/Talisa. So we lose quintessential plot elements like weasel soup and Jaquen changing his face for romance.

The one bright spot for me was the brief scene with Brienne and Jaime.

Osha being seen in broad daylight, and Luwin talking to her? Yet more watering down of the great writing in the books to provide TV-esque plottery for the general public.

I should have put money on Ros being the Whore That Fulfils All Plot Points That Require A Whore.

[DurararaFTW]

Probably. Asha is neither dark-skinned nor very pretty. She doesn't even have long hair. As for Tywin, giving Arya to the Mountain is probably his idea of making sure she stays where she is. Most girls would be too scared to run knowing Gregor would come after them. The Mountain will probably get a rap on the knuckles for letting her escape later and then is when it'll be revealed Tywin knew she was important.

Asha was suppose to be quite pretty in the books, but that's it.

Edited May 21, 2012 by DurararaFTW

[StannisandDaeny]

I think of her more as 'handsome' than 'pretty' if you get my drift: the way she's described Asha is more about charisma and the way she carries herself rather than 'blindingly pretty girl with big brown eyes-looks' like Jeyne is. I never think of her as ugly but not stunningly beautiful either and I think that's the way she's described. A girl like Jeyne would be a pushover and be turned into a salt wife if she was on the Iron Islands, not to mention looking terribly out of place.

Yeah, it totally would have made more sense to simply have a previously unseen black whore dragged out of nowhere instead of the clever way they set up Ros for the job (in case you missed it, she was caught because she was still wearing the necklace Tyrion gave her in episode 1).

Edited May 21, 2012 by StannisandDaeny

[Pliskin]

I think of her more as 'handsome' than 'pretty' if you get my drift: the way she's described Asha is more about charisma and the way she carries herself rather than 'blindingly pretty girl with big brown eyes-looks' like Jeyne is. I never think of her as ugly but not stunningly beautiful either and I think that's the way she's described. A girl like Jeyne would be a pushover and be turned into a salt wife if she was on the Iron Islands, not to mention looking terribly out of place.

Probably. Asha is neither dark-skinned nor very pretty. She doesn't even have long hair.

I don't care at all how she looks like. When I say she looks like Asha, I'm not talking about her skin or her prettiness. It's more than that.

They had the perfect actress for Asha... and they cast her for another role.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Pliskin

[Dragon greyscale]

I did not read the whole thread but two small moments stood out for me in this episode:

1. Tyrion's 'I told you so' glance at Bronn about the pronunciation of some weird author name

2. Arya's 'so?' glance/shrug at jaquen about her having no honor. Who cares..:)

These nonverbal signs are one of the benefits of the medium. Really terrific acting. Sometimes dialogue and words are overrated

[Pliskin]

Oups, sorry, post erased. It was a mistake.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Pliskin

[zippypoodle]

Well you're free to start one. This thread is all-inclusive and it's a little unrealistic to expect there won't be "purists"/"nitpickers" etc. on it.

And it is unrealistic to expect they will not themselves be picked at.

[StannisandDaeny]

I don't care at all how she looks like. When I say she looks like Asha, I'm not talking about her skin or her prettiness. It's more than that. They had the perfect actress for Asha... and they cast her for another role.

So when you say someone looks like someone else, you're not talking about their appearance... okay then. I think our ideas on who or what Asha is differ extremely. The current actress does a great job portraying her IMO, smugness, authority and threatening confidence all around. Not the pretty sultry out-of-place looking outlandish girl who is nevertheless a daughter of Balon Greyjoy Oona would have made if cast for Asha.

Talking about similar appearances, I had Bronn confused with Roose there for a minute at the beginning of a scene where it was kinda dark, lol. Roose is another character they did really well. It makes no sense to me Jeyne would simply walk straight into the tent and interrupt Robb's council however (this is the second time!). It does make for great foreshadowing for what Roose is going to pull.

Edited May 21, 2012 by StannisandDaeny

[DurararaFTW]

So when you say someone looks like someone else, you're not talking about their appearance... okay then. I think our ideas on who or what Asha is differ extremely. The current actress does a great job portraying her IMO, smugness, authority and threatening confidence all around. Not the pretty sultry out-of-place looking outlandish girl who is nevertheless a daughter of Balon Greyjoy Oona would have made if cast for Asha. Talking about similar appearances, I had Bronn confused with Roose there for a minute at the beginning of a scene where it was kinda dark, lol. Roose is another character they did really well. It makes no sense to me Jeyne would simply walk straight into the tent and interrupt Robb's council however (this is the second time!). It makes for great foreshadowing for what Roose is going to pull however.

So when you say someone looks like someone else, you're not talking about their appearance... okay then. I think our ideas on who or what Asha is differ extremely. The current actress does a great job portraying her IMO, smugness, authority and threatening confidence all around. Not the pretty sultry out-of-place looking outlandish girl who is nevertheless a daughter of Balon Greyjoy Oona would have made if cast for Asha. Talking about similar appearances, I had Bronn confused with Roose there for a minute at the beginning of a scene where it was kinda dark, lol. Roose is another character they did really well. It makes no sense to me Jeyne would simply walk straight into the tent and interrupt Robb's council however (this is the second time!). It makes for great foreshadowing for what Roose is going to pull however.

Current Yara looks like she could be related to Theon, they went with making sibling look possibly related ahead of extreme book accuracy. Tyrion's suppose to have part black and white hair and green and black eye and stuff and the actor even had to fake an accent but they still cast Peter after all.

And c'mon, the guards know Robb's planning on doing her, she was having a date with him in the forst trailed by his bodyguards after all. It's the wedding part that's the problem.

Edited May 21, 2012 by DurararaFTW

[Pliskin]

So when you say someone looks like someone else, you're not talking about their appearance... okay then. I think our ideas on who or what Asha is differ extremely. The current actress does a great job portraying her IMO, smugness, authority and threatening confidence all around. Not the pretty sultry out-of-place looking outlandish girl who is nevertheless a daughter of Balon Greyjoy Oona would have made if cast for Asha.

I don't know how to say it. She may not look like Asha, but she IS Asha, for me. You still don't see what I mean ?

And she certainly looks more like Asha, physically, than Yara does, anyway. But it's not the point (old troll).

She's lean, tall, charismatic. And I don't find her face that pretty (at least not more than book!Asha), so... but still, it's not my point ² (sorry...).

Edited May 21, 2012 by Pliskin

[Arkash]

Most important part of the episode for me: Dragonglass ! Great moment ! Otherwise, it was a pure episode of transition.

[StannisandDaeny]

I don't see what you mean at all - I've already established she doesn't look anything like her, Asha is never described as exceedingly pretty, and her character is wholly different as well: when Asha says something mean, it's meant to be mean, Jeyne is simply talking back to Robb to get in his pants. Whereas Asha is more the 'direct attack' type, if you get my drift. Just think back on her memories of the sailor who only knew ten words, one of them being 'fuck'. That's not to say Yara looks that much like I imagined Asha (more or less, though), but she gets the character down perfectly. If Oona had been cast as Asha, I'm pretty sure people would be having their doubts about Balon's authority over his wife and thinking foreign sailors often made their way to Pyke, lol...

That's true 'cos Theon looks nothing like I imagined him either. But it's more important that Alfie Allen does such a great job playing him.

Edited May 21, 2012 by StannisandDaeny