[Book Spoilers] EP 208 Discussion

[gmavridis]

Okay, for everyone complaining about Robb and Jeyne let's set a few things straight. Last episode Robb was heading to the Crag to broker a surrender, Catelyn releases Jaime after he killed Torrhen Karstark. Fast forward to this episode, we see Robb, Jeyne and a group of soldiers traveling somewhere, outriders are sent to bring Robb back to his camp because the Kingslayer is released, Robb goes to his camp, yells at Catelyn, bones Jeyne, realizes he is in love. My guess is that Robb has yet to go to the Crag and Tarlisa will still reveal herself as Jeyne Westerling before going to the Crag to broker a surrender/marriage.

Your guess is the only way to save some of the original story. Still the beauty of Tywin's plot is not served unless Tywin and Jeyne's mother forsaw that Robb would fall for a lovely girl that cuts off legs in his camp!!!!

[Grail King]

Well, I've never said that Talisa has something to do with Asha. They're completely different, we agree on this. But just try to imagine Oona Chaplin (and not the character Talisa she's playing right now) as Asha. And tell me if you don't find her more convincing that Jemma Whelan.

Too thin, Iron born are rough and weathered, can handle both ships and swords, Oona makes a fine high born or nurse, septa but not a warrior type.

This isn't saying she isn't hot but she ain't no sea borne hellcat

[CrypticWeirwood]

(By the way HBO, when Jaqen sheds his face, could you please send it over here for my husband to borrow for a bit? That would compensate nicely for the lack of a certain bath-scene...)

You’re killing me! That’s hilarious. Thank you again.

I now know why I have never like Stannis. He is not a cat person.

Aye, but he’s a dog person. With spicy barbecue sauce, no less.

You know, Tolkien wasn’t a cat person, either. Consider the precursor to Sauron, Tevildo Prince of Cats, in that very early version of the tale of Tinúviel which Tolkien wrote nearly 100 years ago. Check out the giant cat guards. Even later, his legendarium featured the fabled cats of Queen Berúthiel:

She had nine black cats and one white, her slaves, with whom she conversed, or read their memories, setting them to discover all the dark secrets of Gondor, so that she knew those things ‘that men wish most to keep hidden’, setting the white cat to spy upon the black, and tormenting them. No man in Gondor dared touch them; all were afraid of them, and cursed when they saw them pass.

Pretty sure Tolkien was a dog person, too.

Martin, well, Martin I think rather likes cats, but I may be wrong. In Martin’s own legendarium, there are plenty of felines of good repute, including Tommen’s sweet kittens Ser Pounce, Lady Whiskers, and Boots; Princess Rhaenys’s fierce kitten Balerion; and of course Cat of the Canals’ cadre of cats who trail after her cart, including that very special cat into whose skin she was wont to slip.

Consider in contrast Haggon’s imprecation against Varymyr slipping into the skin of a feline. Well, you’d expect as much from a warg, but we’ve seen little evidence that Haggon the Horrible’s warnings were reasonable, or respectable. He was only a “hedge warg”, after all, and never a greenseer.

Perhaps someone who knows Martin will correct me, but I think he rather likes these critters. Which is fine by me.

[Dacie]

I really liked this episode.

Stannis talking about the siege at Storms End was perfect, my favorite part of the show.

I think the outdoor scenery was especially beautiful; the river where Jaime and Brienne escape, Robb and Talisa's walk, and the outdoor shots of Kings Landing all stood out to me.

[Smooth]

The show is the show and the book is the book,I understand that. They butchered this though. I'm really getting tired of this reinvented story, because it's not better. I'm struggling to think of one scene from this episode that was actually the same. I had absolutely no problem with season 1. Season 2 is a complete disaster as far as I'm concerned.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Too thin, Iron born are rough and weathered, can handle both ships and swords, Oona makes a fine high born or nurse, septa but not a warrior type. This isn't saying she isn't hot but she ain't no sea borne hellcat

I’ve always thought of the Ironborn as thinnish. It’s not like they’re well fed, eh?

If we assume that HBO keeps going with the series — and we must assume that, or all is lost — then Asha has so much more to do — at least, once they get past Storm, that is.

^A_Y^s_a^h_r^a_a doesn’t figure into Storm at all. Will the showrunners really let Gemma Whelan go for two years before having her back? What can she be doing in the meantime? Will they pull forward some her story elements from Feast and Dance into any of the fourth or even the third season, rather than waiting for a possible fifth season? I can’t see them putting Alfie Allen’s Theon on a two-year hiatus, so perhaps they won’t do so with his sister either?

Has anyone ever seen the actress who plays ^A_Y^s_a^h_r^a_a — Gemma Whelan — acting in anything else? How are her acting chops? She seems somewhat single-noted so far in this show, but that could just be the material she’s been given so far. I sure do hope she has the staying power for her Feast and Storm parts.

[Grail King]

How many folks had this complaint last season? Not as many as this season I gather . .. They have changed the nature. I don't care about Talisa or Jeyne, I don't care about Ygritte have better teeth than I have in the 21st century, I don't care about Shae, I don't care about Bronn being head of the Gold Cloaks, or Melisandre being skinny and not curvylicious, The reality is that when you have something so essential as the development of a relationship between Jon and the Halfhand, and something as essential as the black rage and utter despair of Robb and Cat after she hears that Bran and Rickon are slaughtered, you start to lose the nature of the story, the nature of the drama. Halfhand's death will seem pointless as Jon is already questioning his vows to the watch thanks to some booty shaking by Ygritte (who looks flawless for a wilding woman), and it seems like Cat was just a selfish weasel. Not a mother who had nothing left, a dead husband, 2 dead children, and was all in for her girls . .. it harms the nature of the story. I will admit and will take chastening for my whining earlier this month, you are correct, I need to read ACOK and shut up. But not this time, this was WRONG, this was GARBAGE, this had me furious because it makes the Starks look like selfish jerks. Right now the Lannisters look more noble and trustworthy than the Starks . . .

I'm not one to complain on book adaptations but who ever was responsible for the Cat,Robb and Westerling portion never did their homework so on this scene I agree with these complaints.

The writer has/had no clue of the makeup of this part of the story.

JMHO

[CrypticWeirwood]

I am really delighted with Stephen Dillane’s Stannis in this episode. This is the Stannis of the books brought alive by Stephen’s command of the craft. Stannis’s chemistry with Davos is so great here. Liam Cunningham was always on the money with his interpretation of Davos, but it wasn’t till this episode that Stannis clicked.

I’m so glad both of these characters will be with us for a long, long time.

[StannisandDaeny]

Perhaps someone who knows Martin will correct me, but I think he rather likes these critters. Which is fine by me.

Well he for sure isn't a Dog person! xD Just watch every single dog that ever appears in the series - bad things happen to almost all of them in a way that is simply grotesque. The dog violence is often grittier and more gory than the human violence, which says a lot, I think.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Remember that interview with the actor who portrays Renly, Gethin Anthony, when he said that the horses were tough to deal with? He said how you only saw people on horseback, not getting on nor especially getting off, because it was always an unfilmably clumsy/embarrassing ordeal requiring a lot of help?

Well, we’ve now seen Charles Dance’s Tywin doing both things. We saw him dismounting his horse when he first got to Harrenhall, and now we’ve seen him mounting one two. I thought his moves looked completely natural both times. I was especially impressed with his arrival, when he dismounted like a real trooper.

Which I suppose is just what he is. A real veteran, and a true actor. He’s done all this before, many many times, and it shows. Bravo! Some things you just can’t fake convincingly. Charles Dance is Tywin Lannister. And we have two more seasons of him. Can’t wait!

[CrypticWeirwood]

Well he for sure isn't a Dog person! xD Just watch every single dog that ever appears in the series - bad things happen to almost all of them in a way that is simply grotesque. The dog violence is often grittier and more gory than the human violence, which says a lot, I think.

Perhaps that’s another point in favour of his being a cat person. Hm.

Speaking of cats, I just love BIG cats. Wouldn’t it be way cool if Jon or Bran were to add a shadowcat to their growing menagerie, or Arya a lion? Yowza!

[CrypticWeirwood]

Glad to see that Tyrion listened to my complaints about Bronn not wearing a gold cloak per his rank and station. ; }

What do you mean rank? It’s the pig-shit, of course. ; }

[CrypticWeirwood]

How come the Night’s Watch out in the snow showed no white breaths? I thought Kit Harrington said it was forty below zero! Sure, it probably wasn’t quite that bad all the time, but I saw no white breath at all, and you get that well warmer than forty below.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Because they prefer to pitch and not to catch

Funny, I thought Satin had proven his versatility. Talented lad, that one. A real professional.

[bardgal]

The fact that Robb marries Jeyne has no consequence in the show/books at all.

uhmm.....

I'd call the RW a pretty big "consequence."

[StannisandDaeny]

Remember that interview with the actor who portrays Renly, Gethin Anthony, when he said that the horses were tough to deal with? He said how you only saw people on horseback, not getting on nor especially getting off, because it was always an unfilmably clumsy/embarrassing ordeal requiring a lot of help? Well, we’ve now seen Charles Dance’s Tywin doing both things. We saw him dismounting his horse when he first got to Harrenhall, and now we’ve seen him mounting one two. I thought his moves looked completely natural both times. I was especially impressed with his arrival, when he dismounted like a real trooper. Which I suppose is just what he is. A real veteran, and a true actor. He’s done all this before, many many times, and it shows. Bravo! Some things you just can’t fake convincingly. Charles Dance is Tywin Lannister. And we have two more seasons of him. Can’t wait!

Huzzah for Charles Dance! Did you see that interview where he explains he learned how to skin that animal in just a day? It would've been rather disastrous if he'd messed that up and they had to start again, but he's Charles Dance - he doesn't mess up.

[CrypticWeirwood]

You have to figure that whatever the horn left with the dragonglass cache really does, it is especially good use against the Others. And not for blowing down the Wall, mind you.

Its continued presence in the film adapatation tells us it must be Important with a capital I, or else they’d not have bothered.

Curiouser and curiouser, quoth Alice.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Huzzah for Charles Dance! Did you see that interview where he explains he learned how to skin that animal in just a day? It would've been rather disastrous if he'd messed that up and they had to start again, but he's Charles Dance - he doesn't mess up.

And wasn’t that the most endearing scene to first meet Tywin? You’re right on that one: he’s a real pro, and a quick study. But I bet they still had a scratch venison on hand just in case.

Edited May 21, 2012 by CrypticWeirwood

[Ghost714]

I am really delighted with Stephen Dillane’s Stannis in this episode. This is the Stannis of the books brought alive by Stephen’s command of the craft. Stannis’s chemistry with Davos is so great here. Liam Cunningham was always on the money with his interpretation of Davos, but it wasn’t till this episode that Stannis clicked.

I’m so glad both of these characters will be with us for a long, long time.

Every since I first saw Stephen Dillane as Stannis, I thought he was perfect. That is exactly how I pictured Stannis in the books, and the actor is doing an amazing job. If anything has been lacking for Stannis so far, I think it's the writing, and not the acting. So I definitely agree with you there, it just clicked much earlier for me, that he was the perfect Stannis.

Same goes for Liam Cunningham as Davos, I loved Liam from other characters he has played, and when I found out he was playing Davos, I was very pleased. After actually seeing him play Davos, I was just that much happier, because he truly rocks the part.

On another note, I really liked the scenery in this episode. When Tyrion and Varys were walking the walls, I thought that scene was awesome visually. Getting to see both the castles to the right and left of where they were standing was awesome. Tyrions line about all gods being "such vicious cunts" was hilarious. Where is the god of tits and wine?

I really wanted to smack Joffrey when he was talking all cocky about going out to fight Stannis, and giving him "a red smile from ear to ear". I can't wait for next weeks "there's to many".

Bronn looked pretty cool in the dark shooting that flaming arrow, I imagine that was him lighting the Wildfire. Glad they are giving him something that important to do, considering he won't be able to be in charge of operating Tyrion's chain boon.

[Ghost714]

You have to figure that whatever the horn left with the dragonglass cache really does, it is especially good use against the Others. And not for blowing down the Wall, mind you.

Its continued presence in the film adapatation tells us it must be Important with a capital I, or else they’d not have bothered.

Curiouser and curiouser, quoth Alice.

I agree. The writers have some extra information from GRRM, so when they had them find the horn under some old school First Men rock carvings, I definitely got the idea that it was important. I have always thought that horn was the horn of Joramun, and after seeing that scene, it only furthered my belief. In the books, it's less dramatic, with more of an emphasis on who put it there(Coldhands). In the show, they said it had been there for a long time etc, and with the First Men rock carvings, there was more of an emphasis on the importance of what was in that cache(the horn). So I definitely think that was the horn of Joramun, and they wanted to make it seem more important, so people would remember it for later. In the books, the horn was full of dirt, and it was old and cracked, unable to make sound. I could be wrong, but in the show the horn looked old, but clean and well kept, not broken at all.