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[Book Spoilers] EP 208 Discussion


Ran
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Bronn looked pretty cool in the dark shooting that flaming arrow, I imagine that was him lighting the Wildfire. Glad they are giving him something that important to do, considering he won't be able to be in charge of operating Tyrion's chain boon.

I haven’t heard any fat lady singing; have you?

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I wonder whether Tabitha’s brother caught greyscale from the Rhoyne?

Well ok, Talissa not Tabitha. But there’s definitely an element of El Amor Brujo here, so Tabitha fits. Watch her nose: it twinkles when she lies.

Edited by CrypticWeirwood
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Ran, we must have a different sense of humor because I thought that Archmaester Ch’Vyalthan bit was hilarious. Joke's on every fantasy novel author, ever.

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Until now I was hoping they will engineer a disclosure scene for Jeyne Westerling so the real beauty of Tywin's plot would not be lost.

I also don't get why people want Talisa anything other than she appears to be. Because it is a different character than in the book?

gmavridis has the right of it, at least in part. Tywin's plotting with the Westerlings and Walder Frey was a masterful example of Tywin's brilliance, ruthlessness, and power- echoing his "dishonorable" means for taking KL in Robert's rebellion- and it seems this will all be lost without Robb's marriage to Jeyne Westerling. Is it "necessary" for the plot or characterization? No, but it's badass and intelligent and it's a shame to miss out on it.

what a great image, when Varys and Tyrion talk about the dragons, with the flames on the foreground...

Yeah, loved that bit.

I'm starting to fear it is to give her something to do IN the House of the Undying, INSTEAD of walking around having visions... If I think about it more, that makes sense. They have left everything that is dreams, visions or prophecy out, except when it is for Bran (where it is quite obviously very necessary). So why would they include those from the House? Showing the RW without giving too much away is difficult, the vision of Rhaegar has no immediate part in the storylines so far (and we didn't get the other R+L=J clues either). I'm lowering my expectations, that way i can only be pleasantly surprised...

Same thoughts here.

Remember that interview with the actor who portrays Renly, Gethin Anthony, when he said that the horses were tough to deal with? He said how you only saw people on horseback, not getting on nor especially getting off, because it was always an unfilmably clumsy/embarrassing ordeal requiring a lot of help? Well, we’ve now seen Charles Dance’s Tywin doing both things. We saw him dismounting his horse when he first got to Harrenhall, and now we’ve seen him mounting one two. I thought his moves looked completely natural both times. I was especially impressed with his arrival, when he dismounted like a real trooper. Which I suppose is just what he is. A real veteran, and a true actor. He’s done all this before, many many times, and it shows. Bravo! Some things you just can’t fake convincingly. Charles Dance is Tywin Lannister. And we have two more seasons of him. Can’t wait!

:cheers: On this we can agree. Brilliantly cast. Don't know if you care for this sort of thing but his portrayal of Tulkinghorn in the BBC Bleak House production is even better. Scary as hell.

Every since I first saw Stephen Dillane as Stannis, I thought he was perfect. That is exactly how I pictured Stannis in the books, and the actor is doing an amazing job. If anything has been lacking for Stannis so far, I think it's the writing, and not the acting. So I definitely agree with you there, it just clicked much earlier for me, that he was the perfect Stannis. Same goes for Liam Cunningham as Davos...When Tyrion and Varys were walking the walls, I thought that scene was awesome visually. Getting to see both the castles to the right and left of where they were standing was awesome.

Spot on, all of it.

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Well he for sure isn't a Dog person! xD Just watch every single dog that ever appears in the series - bad things happen to almost all of them in a way that is simply grotesque. The dog violence is often grittier and more gory than the human violence, which says a lot, I think.

As a dog person who admires cats, I have noticed that GRRM does have a tendency to do very unpleasant things to dogs. There are two other works by him that I don't reread because of it. I don't think he's much kinder to cats in AGOT; yes, Tommen loves kittens, and Balerion the kitten survived, but the description of Joffrey's torture of the kitchen cat in retrospect is ghastly. And two out of five Stark direwolves - the biggest, baddest canids of all - died violently; though it can be argued that the fates of Lady and Grey Wind are plot-directed.

I'm not optimistic for the long lives of Ramsey's "girls"; which is kinda sad, because they don't seem to be particularly vicious dogs, they just do what Ramsey has trained them to do, track and hunt. They're actually quite friendly to Theon-Reek.

I would imagine that at least one or two of Tommen's kittens will survive, though.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that GRRM is either indifferent to dogs or dislikes them; but that may not be the case, he just may be a total cat person. He has cats, right?

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I like how they used the words 'baby brother" twice in the episode.

I also like the little tribute to first episode about the bravery of a frightened man.

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I'm sorry but that's one of the main problems I have with this episode, because honestly it makes Tywin look like a fool. All those past episodes I though he knew who she was and just kept her around that way for his own specific reasons that were supposed to revealed later, and I was thrilled to see where this was going. Yet now? Tywin realizes she's a highborn northern girl, yet make no move whatsoever to find out who she is? How many northern girls are running around in a war, I ask you? How come she was able to be captured when the Lannisters haven't even breached northern territory? How come that nobody told Tywin that Amory Lorch chased Arya five minutes before he got murdered? The show also lets Tywin assume he was the target of the murder where the way the killing happened clearly suggests he isn't (Lorch drops dead into his room with the dart already in his neck) Tywin just appears to be big idiot instead of smart strategist. Way to ruin a role, imo.

It is a shame that the writers couldn't figure out a better finish to the Tywin/Arya relationship, especially since they dreamed it up in the first place. I did enjoy the chemistry between the characters and the actors; but what was it all for? Tywin to toss his favorite cupbearer to the Mountain as a housewarming gift? I guess Tywin wasn't as smart as we thought he was?

If Tywin thought the cute cupbearer was as special as he seemed to during the past few episodes, why wouldn't he take her with him? Or was he just bored, and found that the clever girl was the only one capable of interesting conversation in Harrenhal, but did not find her interesting enough to bring back to King's Landing? Tywin did not, after all, ever address her by name.

Maybe the writers will reveal, in the next two episodes, that Tywin did figure out that the cupbearer was Arya and had parked her in Harrenhal with instructions to Gregor to keep her safe and under control; but of course had not anticipated Arya's Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card with Jaquen Haqar. It's a bit murky; but so far the conclusion to the Tywin/Arya arc was sadly underwhelming. I did enjoy Tywin's masterful leavetaking of Harrenhal, with horses and red-cloaked Lannister troops.

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i liked all the King's Landing scenes, and this was the first episode that made me like asha. overall it was a good episode, since i could feel the anticipation from tyrion and cersei and varys and bronn about the up.coming epic battle... is it sunday yet??!

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Am I the only who feels like they'll have a ton to cram into the season finale given how all of episode 9 is devoted to Blackwater/KL?

No, I think so, too. I posted a big long list of these things upthread somewhere, if you can find it.

They have two major elements they need to complete: the House of the Undying and the Sack of Winterfell.

They also have a heaping megaton of denouement to get through, plus a few problems of their own creation, like Chekov’s Treasure Vault.

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Anyone else want to see a show where Bronn, Tyrion, and Varys drive around the country in a van solving mysteries? Anyone? Because I would pay cash money for that.

Read this 12 hours ago,and I'm still laughing. :lmao:

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Think it's funny how people apologize for the terribad Dany storyline by saying it "spices things up" and "gives her something to do", when absolutely nothing happened and they're just dragging things along. :)

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I generally don't complain about the show's changes (I actually prefer some of them- e.g. the new and improve Qarth story), but I'm a little troubleed / concerned about a few: 1. No mention of Tyrion's giant chain? How will there be a Blackwater without the chain? Even if it's there, the build-up to the chain was one of the best parts of ACoK, and it really showed Tyrion's brilliance. 2. I didn't like Cat setting Jaime free before hearing of Bran and Rickon. It was the supposed death of her two sons that spurred her to free Jaime in the book. Freeing him before hearing of their deaths doesn't make as much sense. It seems out of character. Her act in the book was pure desparation. Here, there was no basis for such a rash act. 3. Why make Jeyne from Volantis?

I think that Catelyns actions in the series are more desparate and make even more sense than in the books, TBH

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Yes. As an earlier post mentioned, what's the point of turning her into some random foreigner?? I don't think it's at all true to character for Jeyne to be complicit in Robb's betrayal, but that would at least be better than some wandering nurse from Volantis. And for reals he's not at all worried about how this woman got to his camp, how she supports herself or WHO supports her and this brilliant military strategist has no qualms about sharing all this sensitive information with this strange, unsubstantiated girl? And to throw everything away on her not out of grief and guilt over his brothers but because he's on the outs with Mommy and the girl's brother almost died once when they were kids??? And while I'm at it, the Halfhand would never get captured. Period. And I don't think book Ygritte's nearly as smart as TV Ygritte, who's clearly already figured out what Qhorin's planning, though Jon probably hasn't, b/c TV Jon is a buffoon.

Quorin gets caught by the Wildlings in the book.

I don't see how anybody can think any of the episodes are boring. Most people call me a purist(even though I have like many of the changes, as long as they are done well), and even if I wish the show was more true to the book, I would never say any of the episodes are boring. No matter what, source material aside, it's still a good show. I watch every episode three times, and I have done the same with this episode, and not one episode on any of my rewatches, has ever been boring(and I have seen a lot of the episodes even more than three times).

Heh, me a purist, I think I got the term rolling here :) I like most of the changes they make. I didn't like not having Weasel Soup because it was my favorite part of the books and it was replaced with a very bland escape scene. After weeks of some of the best television I've seen in years, Arya leaves Harrenhal with a whimper. (her death #3 scene with Jaquen was perfect to be fair)

I watched the episode again with a non-reader. Rethoughts:

It probably wasn't as bad as I first thought, but still the worst episode I can remember, and I don't think I'm moving off my 4/10.

My mind had forgotten some of the better scenes. Theon and Yara was great and a perfect example of how to give a meaningful backstory. Such contrast to the drawn out, meaningless story told by Not-Jeyne.

Stannis/ Davos was better than I credited it.

Overall the problem still exists that this episode was pretty much meaningless filler. (and several of these filler moments were just awful scenes). What really happened in this episode? Two weeks of mostly filler and buildup. (Especially with the mediocre job done last week on the fake killing of BR). I don't understand how they can waste so much time in the series, when they don't have time for things which would be great to see. I can't think of anything which has happened in the past two episodes which couldn't have been simply cut or compressed into another episode. That's not to say I regret having watched them, there are still some scenes worth watching (more so last week than this week), but these episodes just seem such wastes when they seem to not have time for other things.

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Hey, American viewers. In case it hadn't occurred to you yet, you have the day after Blackwater off for Memorial Day. :cheers: What will you be drinking?

A light Arbor gold.

Can anyone tell me who Theon's Bronn-looking right-hand nastyman is in the book?

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The way i see them ending this series is either going to be;

1) ramsay sacking winterfell with Theon geting knocked to the ground/out "burn it all!"

2) Jon killing halfhand to join the wildings OR jon arriving at mance's camp

3) Dany entering the house of the undying OR burning it down.

considering majority of the budget went into blackwater though, my bet would be on Ramsay showing up at winterfell

also in regards to the chain, from what it looked like in the preview it seems like they've coated the water in wildfire and Bronn shoots a flaming arrow into it to ignite tje water and the ships. But thats just my assumption, could just be Bronn shooting someone :P

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I didn't like not having Weasel Soup because it was my favorite part of the books and it was replaced with a very bland escape scene. After weeks of some of the best television I've seen in years, Arya leaves Harrenhal with a whimper. (her death #3 scene with Jaquen was perfect to be fair) I watched the episode again with a non-reader. Rethoughts: It probably wasn't as bad as I first thought, but still the worst episode I can remember

Precisely which non-existent set of northern forces that weren’t being held there as prisoners were you expecting Arya to bust out so they could take over Harranhall?

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Precisely which non-existent set of northern forces that weren’t being held there as prisoners were you expecting Arya to bust out so they could take over Harranhall?

Well, they could have added some Northern forces for Arya to try and free, and used that time to spare us any more Robb Talisa scenes. Yeah, the whole Roose takeover was confusing in the books and would have been very difficult on the show, but they could have come up with something.

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Well, they could have added some Northern forces for Arya to try and free, and used that time to spare us any more Robb Talisa scenes. Yeah, the whole Roose takeover was confusing in the books and would have been very difficult on the show, but they could have come up with something.

They did come up with something!

Similarly with Robb. They needed to do all that. The uxor ex machina bullshit in the book would have gone over like a lead balloon. It would have been justly ridiculed. What they did was much better.

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