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[Book Spoilers] EP 208 Discussion


Ran
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does anyone else leave HBO on after and watch Veep? I find it delightful.

I DVR it. :)

But why not just change Jeyne Poole's name later, whenever she shows up? Was she even in Season One? I thought they dumped her.

She was shown briefly at the feast at Winterfell in season 1, but I don't think she was ever named. I think when fakeArya shows-up in a few seasons, it'll just be some unfortunate girl.

Edited by J.S. Crews
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Good ep, nice set up for the big battle. Good to see Robb's side of things. I am glad they sped up Bran and Rickon getting in the crypts. As of now that is the storyline they should spend the least amount of time on as Bran and company hang out there for long time

Edited by Hear Us Roar
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on a completely different note, does anyone else leave HBO on after and watch Veep? I find it delightful.

Check out The Thick of It on youtube. Veep is pretty good, but this British show by the same creator is miles better.

I DVR it. :) She was shown briefly at the feast at Winterfell in season 1, but I don't think she was ever named. I think when fakeArya shows-up in a few seasons, it'll just be some unfortunate girl.

Yeah, if htey do fake Arya it will have to be someone different. It was never mentioned that any girl went to King's Landing with the Starks, so it will have to just be some random girl that is around the same age as Arya. Could be somewhat problematic if Theon recognizing her is important, but it didnt' seem to be in ADWD adn they can write it around it pretty easily.

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Last week people were complaining that B & R weren't in the crypts. Now, they are complaining that they are in the crypts. It's totally valid to not think certain changes work, but let's not complain just for the sake of complaining!

Good point. Granted, in all fairness, it's probably different people doing the complaining, but it just goes to show that, no matter what they do, somebody is gonna get their feathers ruffled.

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Good Lord you can not care about the changes or care about them and either point is valid. Discuss the points, not the people. If it irritates you to read "purist" comments don't read em. Or find/create a thread that doesn't allow people to disagree with anything HBO does.

:agree:

It also really bothers me when two posters start a little 'war' with each other, get 'bossy' and indignant about it, and just can't let it go. Or when they simply get into the "I'm right and you're wrong" thing. I gotta tell you, I love having the 'last word' and I love being 'right', that I do, but it really does bog down a forum discussion.

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In regards to the aparant changes, here's what I'm thinking. For Arya, I was also dissapointed with no Weasel Soup. I got all excited when Hot Pie was brought in, I was sure they would use him for that! But Weasel Soup actually is important to the plot, because without it Bolton doesn't get Harrenhal. So here's what I'm thinking. Jaqen uses the Weasel Soup to free prisoners like in the book, and Arya, Gendry and Hot Pie escape in the confusion of the castle being taken by northmen. This can be in the finale, because it would be one hell of a scene. Same for Dany. In the finale, she will get her climax in the House of the Undying. Blackwater looks SO EPIC. I swear to god, next week I am going all out. Maybe I'll even buy popcorn :) . Jeyne/Talisa can also be a twist that will be saved for the finale. After Robb falls in love with her he finds out she's actually a member of a family sworn to the Lannisters! How would that be for an end to Robb's season 2 story? I'm hoping my predictions become true. TBH I understand why the writers are doing what they are doing. The battle is the climax of Tyrion/Cersei/Stannis/Davos, but the actual finale is the climax of Jon/Dany/Arya/Bran/Theon/etc.... The final chapters in book 2 were good, but if they hold all the great scenes for the finale it can be sure to end with a bang. Especially because they have to have something that can even compare with Blackwater's epicness.

But then they would be inside the gates of Harrenhal for at least 48 hours. It's sadly not possible.

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it will have to just be some random girl that is around the same age as Arya. Could be somewhat problematic if Theon recognizing her is important, but it didnt' seem to be in ADWD adn they can write it around it pretty easily.

I think it's really only important that Theon recognizes she's NOT Arya, as opposed to recognizing who she really is. So, as you said, it'll come off fine.

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This was the first episode where the changes started to get to me. Given the fact that they hadn't set up any of the stuff relating to weasel soup, and that Roose is off with Robb in the Westerlands, I suppose I shouldn't have been surprised that they didn't have it, but it was still a bit jarring.

My bigger complaints are two:

1) What on earth is the deal with Talisa? I was convinced last week by her reluctance to go to the Crag that she was Jeyne, but now she's telling a detailed and convincingly detailed story about her life in Volantis, and seems to have returned from the Crag without incident. So she is Talisa? If so, why did they even bring the Crag into it? Why do the extras say that the Crag is home to House Westerling? That's just purposefully fucking with book readers, I think, which is annoying.

2) More subtly, I was a little bit irritated by the way Tywin took his leave of Arya. Which I guess is a complaint that the show runners haven't changed from the books as much as they should have. I guess I kind of thought that Tywin's interactions with her would prove to have some importance in the plot - that maybe he knew she was Arya, or something. Because we saw a ton of them sitting in that room talking to each other. And then he's just "Alright, I'm heading out, take good care of the Mountain for me." It didn't feel very satisfying within the context of the show. But perhaps that was inevitable.

Other than that, I was fairly satisfied. I don't mind the change in Catelyn's release of Jaime, although I wish she'd have said that she did it in part because she was afraid Karstark and his men would murder Jaime if she didn't, and end all chance of her seeing her daughters. And some of the other "changes" turn out not to have been changes at all, as I expected - Jon and Qhorin's endgame will play out basically as it did in the books, Bran and company are still hiding in the crypts.

And lots of good scenes - I loved Stannis and Davos, Theon and Yara, Cersei and Tyrion, all the Tyrion/Bronn/Varys business, and Brienne and Jaime. Still not sure what I think of Robb/Talisa (I guess I have to start calling her that, now), as I'm too confused about what's going on, but Oona Chaplin certainly has a great body, and the book version obviously wouldn't work given that Madden isn't 15.

The Dany plot I still don't really care about, but I'll be interested to see the House of the Undying.

I suppose I'll also have to admit that I was stupidly wrong in thinking they wouldn't use Ros in Alayaya's role. I thought it wouldn't make any sense why Cersei would think she meant something to Tyrion, but I guess it was fine, and it was obviously pretty predictable, since everyone else predicted it. Ah well.

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I don't mind the change in Catelyn's release of Jaime, although I wish she'd have said that she did it in part because she was afraid Karstark and his men would murder Jaime if she didn't, and end all chance of her seeing her daughters.

You must remember it came directly on the heels of dialogue between her and Brienne explicitly stating that Jaime would likely be dead before morning. I just wish she had called-out Karstark on that in front of Robb.

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They should have named this episode Can't Understand Normal Thinking. If I had a nickel for every time they used the word I would have... Maybe a quarter? It was delivered most effectively by good old Yara. That was fantastic. The next usage of the word I am most looking forward to is when Arya places a Camel before it. That was simply a classic book moment.

So I vaguely remember reading a thread (or 2) about who placed the NW cloaked obsidian in the Fist of First Men. I think the argument was that it was either Benjen or some other recent ranger. If the show is a proper reference then it looks like it is very old dragon glass. Which could mean it was left by someone of the First Men...

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You must remember it came directly on the heels of dialogue between her and Brienne explicitly stating that Jaime would likely be dead before morning. I just wish she had called-out Karstark on that in front of Robb.

Yeah, that's basically what I was saying - she should have told Robb that she did it in part because Karstark seemed to be planning to murder Jaime before Robb got back. But it's not a big deal, and I can kind of see why she might not want to alienate Karstark by doing that.

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In the preview for next week, does anyone else think it looked like Stannis was leading the charge off the rowboats, into the defenders of Kings Landing?

Don't get me wrong, I am glad the are showing something that makes Stannis look like a badass, but Stannis isn't really that type of badass. He is definitely the more cautious Commander, and if he leads the charge, they are going to have to make him look even more badass IMO. He would have to be super badass, in order to survive to fight another day, after having led the charge right into a trap, and then being flanked by the Tywin/Tyrell army.

So if my eyes did not decieve me, and if that preview was not just crafty editing to make it look like Stannis leads the charge, then I am very curious/excited to see Stannis fighting hand to hand the whole battle, and how he will survive it.

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I'm really unhappy with the changes to Arya's story. Arya slices a man's throat in cold blood and whispers "Valar Morghulis" on her way out of Harrenhal. Harrenhal was the beginning of Arya's journey to becoming a cold blooded killer. Nothing about show!arya coveys that she has that level of darkness in her. I think they have messed up her character arc in ACOK pretty badly, and given how Arya is my favorite character this is really ticking me off.

ETA:

HOTU in episode ten better be as freaking amazing as it was in the books (although I'm not holding my breath given what they did to Bran's 3-eyed crow dream), because otherwise the entire Dany story this season has been a big waste of time.

Edited by The Scabbard Of the Morning
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i like the the wildlings camo pattern

talysa im not that into her as she is too "in your face/pants" Robb

she is going to get married to the king by sleeping with him - i dont even care if she is a maid -

Jayne was a noble maid so when Robb took her, he was doing the noble thing so she wasn't disgraced but Talysa is not a noblewoman or at least not a Westeros noblewoman and the Freys wont be angry over Robb doing some westelands or essos girls but marrying one for sure will make them plan a RW

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I feel almost redeemed with this train wreck of an episode. Every major issue I've had with this season's writing was pretty much proven correct.

1. The miscast and terrible writing of Shae. Who bought for a second that Tyrion had fallen head over heels for her? There hasn't been a single scene this season that would suggest that his feelings are anything more than sexual, and now he is near tears? Uggh...

2. Talisa - Stupid unnecessary rewrite of a minor character which required a long lenghty and boring backstory this week, that adds really nothing to the Robb/Jeyne Westerling union. I wasn't against modifying the original story given the aging up of Robb's character, but this was as awful as expected. It isn't the actors, both are more than competent to deliver the goods, but I wasn't feeling anything with these two. Even the clumsy attempt of humour during the stripping down scene, as least I think was an attempt, came off as terrible.

3. Arya and Tywin - Yes - They have chemistry in spades, but other than Cersei and Tyrion, what two characters had more screen time together this season? And what was the point in the end? Nothing. Yes - We got some lessons in great acting from Charles Dance and Maise, but to have no real significant point for the characters suggests what a poorly thought out idea. Why not at least play up the drama and have Tywin get a letter from Tyrion indicating they have lost Arya and Tywin suddenly clueing in on who this high born girl is? At least it would add some drama to the events at Harrenhal. Or as I like to call it "Arya's Haunted Castle Vacation"

4. Qarth. Despite all the rewrites and changes, it remains the weak storyline that it was in Clash of Kings. It feels like its taking her a month to get from the kidnapping of the dragons to actually visiting the House of the Undying.

That said, I did like Stannis and Davros, and Tyrion with everyone (excluding Shae).

Edited by pleonasm
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