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[Book Spoilers] EP 208 Discussion

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They were digging a latrine.

The Pythons dug no latrines? That musta made for a pretty shitty show then, eh? ; }

Edited by CrypticWeirwood

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Although I did find it weird Robb imprisoned Catelyn, whereas in ASoS, he knew she did it for the best. I guess since the Tullys aren't in this season, we'll have to save face with that one. And I was also expecting the mention of the chain, especially near the end where they were looking across the bay, I just thought Tyrion would mention it. But hey, Blackwater's gonna be a beast nonetheless! Although it would have been a beautiful scene if episode 10 ended with Bran, Rickon, and co. being revealed for the first time since their "deaths", with the camera following their shadowed backs out of the crypts and out into the ruined Winterfell. Would have been a great ending and shocker for the audience.

Iirc, Robb did place Cat under house arrest at Riverrun in the books; I don't think he's actually having her penned up in the show.

Re: the chain, I think it'll be sprung on us like it will be on Stannis and Davos. They're saving it up.

And I completely agree about seeing the kids escape the crypts at the end of the season. Would've been stellar.

I wonder if they're trying to make the Jeyne thing some big shocking reveal for the last episode, like, whoa, this girl King Robb has fallen in love with is actually the daughter of a family that is on the other side, what will he do now? For me, that sacrifices characterization for a sort of lame surprise, but I can see where they might have thought it would be cool in the writer's room. It just doesn't seem to be working on screen.

Agreed.

In the preview for next week, does anyone else think it looked like Stannis was leading the charge off the rowboats, into the defenders of Kings Landing? Don't get me wrong, I am glad the are showing something that makes Stannis look like a badass, but Stannis isn't really that type of badass. He is definitely the more cautious Commander, and if he leads the charge, they are going to have to make him look even more badass IMO. He would have to be super badass, in order to survive to fight another day, after having led the charge right into a trap, and then being flanked by the Tywin/Tyrell army. So if my eyes did not decieve me, and if that preview was not just crafty editing to make it look like Stannis leads the charge, then I am very curious/excited to see Stannis fighting hand to hand the whole battle, and how he will survive it.

Damn straight.

I feel almost redeemed with this train wreck of an episode. Every major issue I've had with this season's writing was pretty much proven correct. 1. The miscast and terrible writing of Shae. Who bought for a second that Tyrion had fallen head over heels for her? There hasn't been a single scene this season that would suggest that his feelings are anything more than sexual, and now he is near tears? Uggh... 2. Talisa - Stupid unnecessary rewrite of a minor character which required a long lenghty and boring backstory this week, that adds really nothing to the Robb/Jeyne Westerling union. I wasn't against modifying the original story given the aging up of Robb's character, but this was as awful as expected. It isn't the actors, both are more than competent to deliver the goods, but I wasn't feeling anything with these two. Even the clumsy attempt of humour during the stripping down scene, as least I think was an attempt, came off as terrible. 3. Arya and Tywin - Yes - They have chemistry in spades, but other than Cersei and Tyrion, what two characters had more screen time together this season? And what was the point in the end? Nothing. Yes - We got some lessons in great acting from Charles Dance and Maise, but to have no real significant point for the characters suggests what a poorly thought out idea. Why not at least play up the drama and have Tywin get a letter from Tyrion indicating they have lost Arya and Tywin suddenly clueing in on who this high born girl is? At least it would add some drama to the events at Harrenhal. Or as I like to call it "Arya's Haunted Castle Vacation" 4. Qarth. Despite all the rewrites and changes, it remains the weak storyline that it was in Clash of Kings. It feels like its taking her a month to get from the kidnapping of the dragons to actually visiting the House of the Undying. That said, I did like Stannis and Davros, and Tyrion with everyone (excluding Shae).

Great post..."Arya's Haunted Castle Vacation" :lmao:

He is truly the prince that was promised.

DYING!!!! LOVE IT.

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Roose disgusts Talisa because Robb's fucking up really bad because of her. Couple that with Catelyn's meddling and Roose knows they're screwed. I"m sure Roose is already plotting to take over the north on the show even

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Rumour has it that Sean Bean and Jason Momoa were on set for filming the second series. David and Dan said that we’d see Ned in flashback-like scenes later on, although we haven’t yet. Can’t imagine that will be in “Blackwater”, which leaves only “Valar Morghulis” for them to show up.

The actress playing Dany said fans wouldn’t be disappointed by her “big scene” this season. Sounds like we may get more than we bargained for in the final episode.

Prediction: We’ll see something of Ned in Dany’s shade-of-the-evening visions in the Houses of the Holy Undying. I wonder whether they’ll use that to tell her she has a rival for the Iron Throne in some undisclosed nephew borne of Rhaegar, instead of showing Rhaegar and Elia and Aegonito. Might see some Tower of Joy scene. Might see Aerys cooking Papa Stark inspiring daughter Danny-Aerys to do some improvisational cooking on her own.

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@ Vienna: They changed her because it would make no sense for an enemy lady to be roaming around the camp (Bad Things Might Happen to her) and Robb needed some dialogue with her leading up to breaking her vows. The real problem is that Robb comes off as a big idiot seeking her out himself.

Love makes idiots of us all. :)

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Cutting off faces? Shae is clearly Ramsay -- it all makes sense now.

I don't understand people who complain that Jon's storyline makes him seem incompetent. He got captured by his enemy, which at this point has also happened to fan-favourites Tyrion, Jaime and Eddard. People are complaining because it deviates from the book but that's it. I love Ygritte in the show more than I liked her in the books, and I really liked her in the books; the more of her the better the show is. Where's Ghost at though? I'm not sold that he won't show up at the last second to free Jon so he and Qhorin can do a last stand like in the books but with their little scuffle I seriously doubt it.

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I think I'm in a very small minority of people who don't have a problem with the Jeyne?/Robb romance if it is put into the proper context, that she is one of the few bright spots in his dreary and bloodstained existance. I'm not exactly sure where they are going with things put I think Jeyne will become less wooden as the series progresses. By Jeyne I mean Talisha of course.

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I love the chiaroscuro use of natural lighting, but people without super high-quality/contrast TV sets who view this in a completely dark room are going to have a really tough time with it. And they won’t understand why they can’t see anything.

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I'm thinking that Talisa is going to turn out to be the daughter of Gerion Lannister, Tywin's youngest brother who was last seen in Volantis before he sailed off into Smoking Sea looking for Brightroar amid the ruins of Valyria. As to whether or not she'll turn out to be working or spying for Twywin... no idea.

Intriguing...

I always felt the Ironborn were morons here. Yeah, your strength lies in the sea. You still went to war against the North and you aren't going to conquer it or be ready when Robb goes North by harrying a few villages and staying at sea. Either don't go to war or do it properly. Theon's chances weren't fantastic, but at least he committed to the hopeless war they started. Balon and Asha had learned absolutely nothing from Theon's brothers deaths and would've steered towards the same old end if not for Euron. But here Yara when they were alone went for different angle. A Ironbron dies at sea. She wants her brother to be an ironborn win or lose. Theon doesn't get this, he doesn't see how being Prince of Winterfell and Ironborn are two different things. Which is what his character arc is all about.

Brilliant.

I like Jorah's being all "off course i remember you stepping out of flames unburnt. You were supernaked. I think about that moment every second of every day."

:lmao:

Not a bad episode. I could have cheerfully done without seeing more Robb/Talisa scenes; but at least Roz didn't talk too much while standing in for Alayaya from the books. Cersei was in better form in this episode - perhaps she just had to have somebody whipped to restore the confidence that was lagging in the last episode? It's not easy being queen... Finally, a moment or two when I liked Asha-Yara. It started when she had her feet up on the Winterfell table; a pose that seemed very Asha-ish. Nice scene between her and Theon. Poor Theon is still trying to be both Stark - wanting to compensate the miller for murdering his foster-sons - and Ironborn by claiming credit for killing Bran and Rickon. Alfie Allen is extremely believable as Theon. Tyrion is very much in love with Shae; and it seems fairly obvious to the viewer that she thinks he's cute, or gullible, but she certainly is nowhere near reciprocating his deep feelings for her.

Good points all....totally with you on Cersei...amusingly put...

Re: Shae, I always read her as a total golddigger...ironically the very thing Tyrion thought Tysha was...thought it was great writing for GRRM to juxtapose those two in that way and mess with Tyrion's head and heart.

The Jamie/Brienne Road Trip sets off in fine style! More of these two, less of Talisa and Robb, and I'd be a happy watcher! The Dany/Jorah scene had a lovely view of the Mighty Cheekbones and Azure Eyes of Iain Glen, but not much else.

Here, here!!

I'm sorry but that's one of the main problems I have with this episode, because honestly it makes Tywin look like a fool. All those past episodes I though he knew who she was and just kept her around that way for his own specific reasons that were supposed to revealed later, and I was thrilled to see where this was going. Yet now? Tywin realizes she's a highborn northern girl, yet make no move whatsoever to find out who she is? How many northern girls are running around in a war, I ask you? How come she was able to be captured when the Lannisters haven't even breached northern territory? How come that nobody told Tywin that Amory Lorch chased Arya five minutes before he got murdered? The show also lets Tywin assume he was the target of the murder where the way the killing happened clearly suggests he isn't (Lorch drops dead into his room with the dart already in his neck) Tywin just appears to be big idiot instead of smart strategist. Way to ruin a role, imo.

:agree:

Osha being seen in broad daylight, and Luwin talking to her? Yet more watering down of the great writing in the books to provide TV-esque plottery for the general public. I should have put money on Ros being the Whore That Fulfils All Plot Points That Require A Whore.

Yeah, that Osha thing was a wtf moment for me, too.

Knew that Ros thing was coming...love the way you put it, though.

I think you are missing the criticism. It isn't that change is bad. Its the quality of the changes that's the problem. This is a we will have to be an agree to disagree arguement. And we all realize its an adaption which will necessitate changes. In fact, when they do it well, I think they deserve tonnes of credit (i.e. Theon's execution of Roderick). When its done poorly or not thought through, they can be called out. Tywin and Arya is annoying, because there is no payoff. Its a great concept, with a some great moments, but its pointless because of the lack of payoff. Shae fails, because the writing never established the importance of the relationship to Tyrion before the scene with Cersei. Or a single scene that redeems Shae as a character. They attempted last week with her coming to the defence of Sansa, but that felt trite to me. Talisa and Robb is boring. I know good dramatic and comedic writing when I see it and this season has unfortunately lots of bad writing and plotting.

:cheers:

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"

The actress playing Dany said fans wouldn’t be disappointed by her “big scene” this season. Sounds like we may get more than we bargained for in the final episode."

I've been thinking all along that the reason the Qarth scenes have been so, shall we say, cheap and without much substance is because they baked in all their budget for the final HofU scenes, which were very detailed in the books. Plus you know they have to be budgeting for that dragon CGI. Same goes for the battle at KL.

Honestly, my only beef has been that they haven't had Tyrion working on the chain subtly. If they just drop it in all of a sudden like an ah ha moment, its going to blow.

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It's clear that she bothers him and he sees what's coming and perhaps might already be thinking ahead like the crafty bastard he is. Foreshadowing at its best. Nicely done. Because of the necklace he gave her in episode 1. Trust me, you've seen nothing. You should have seen the Sword Of Truth forum when the show aired - it was enormous. I think people on this board are very civilized in voicing the gripes they have with the show and should have the right to voice these without being shot down as 'bloody purists'.

:cheers:

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It's official, Ros is the Kilroy of Westeros. I'm debating whether or not I should start a thread about how instrumental Ros was to every mystery in the story. I resented the character, I struggled against her...but like a stockholm syndrom victim, I embraced her and began to love it.

Who hid the Dragonglass in the Fist of Men? Ros, of course.

Also, three guesses as to who is under Qualithe's mask.

(Also, an excellent episode mostly because it had interactions between my favorite banter couples...Tyrion/Bronn, Davos/Stannis, Jaime/Brienne. I had to go lie down after all that)

Fucking brilliant.

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Why do people keep thinking Dagmer is Ramsey? Why would Ramsey just be chillin on the Iron Islands, hoping Theon would turn his cloak? How could Roose know Theon would be a turncloak?

If this guy was not a true "Iron Islander", then how does he know enough to school Theon on their ways and customs, and wouldn't Theon's crew notice if this guy was not Ironborn? If Dagmer is Ramsey, how would he sack Winterfell and take Theon captive? In the book, "Reek" said he knew some Dreadfort men he could find to come help them. In the show, what do you think "Dagmer" will do? I can't see him saying "my prince give me some bags of silver, I know I am "Ironborn", but unexplainably, I have hundreds of friends in the neighborhood that will come to your aid". Just to name a few holes in this crackpot theory...

The biggest one though IMO, is the fact that Dagmer is in his 40's, and he looks it!!! Roose in the book, is in his mid to late 40's, Roose in the show looks about the same. However, for the sake of argument, let's just say Roose is 50, considering everybody was aged up a little bit for the show. Do you people think Roose had Ramsey when he was seven?!?

I know that Dagmer has been playing the role of Reek/Ramsey, every since Theon and his crew got to Winterfell, but that does not mean Dagmer is Ramsey.

The show gave some of the role of the Reeds to Osha, but that does not mean Osha is Meera Reed.

Obviously Dagmer could be Ramsey, the show can do that if they ultimately wanted to, I am just saying if that's the case, it makes no sense at all, and I hope the show writers aren't that dumb.

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The biggest one though IMO, is the fact that Dagmer is in his 40's, and he looks it!!! Roose in the book, is in his mid to late 40's, Roose in the show looks about the same. However, for the sake of argument, let's just say Roose is 50, considering everybody was aged up a little bit for the show. Do you people think Roose had Ramsey when he was seven?!?

Oh it’s workable, all right: Roose is supposed to look ridiculously young for his age, whereas Ramsey is supposed to look rather older than his age. Remember when Asha finally finds Theon again, she thinks he’s an old man. Clean living versus self-(or otherwise)abuse makes a huge real-world difference in perceived ages.

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