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[Book Spoilers] EP 208 Discussion

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I generally don't complain about the show's changes (I actually prefer some of them- e.g. the new and improve Qarth story), but I'm a little troubleed / concerned about a few:

1. No mention of Tyrion's giant chain? How will there be a Blackwater without the chain? Even if it's there, the build-up to the chain was one of the best parts of ACoK, and it really showed Tyrion's brilliance.

2. I didn't like Cat setting Jaime free before hearing of Bran and Rickon. It was the supposed death of her two sons that spurred her to free Jaime in the book. Freeing him before hearing of their deaths doesn't make as much sense. It seems out of character. Her act in the book was pure desparation. Here, there was no basis for such a rash act.

3. Why make Jeyne from Volantis?

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I really, really, really wish these bellyachers could shut their gobs and appreciate the show for itself, for what it is, and not for what it isn’t — and never was going to be.
Y

You and me both.

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I hope they do keep Dagmer around, though. Hate to see him get killed-off.

Naw, he’s just some nobody. Definitely red-shirt material. Low pay rate and all that.

Oh wait. He’s actually an Actor of Name, isn’t he.

Hmmm.....

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I hope they do keep Dagmer around, though. Hate to see him get killed-off.

Oh, I agree. Maybe he can take the place of the Walders as Reek's favorite "pets."

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Thanks, how were people expecting them to set this up with what we had seen to date. I guess did people expect for Northereners to get captured?

The prisoners came from the battle Roose Bolton had backed off from, trying to cross the river down from Riverrun. Vargo Hoat brought them to Harrenhall, after Tywin Lannister left. The prisoners included Robert Glover. Vargo Hoat then switched sides, and shortly after Roose Bolton showed up and took over Harrenhall.

ETA: The important matter is that after weasel soup, Arya sees Jaquen change face, and asks him to teach her. He tells her she would have to come with him she won't, so he gives her the coin and teaches her the words, valor morghulis.

Edited by Fragile Bird

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I don't think the problem is that we're seeing what is happening. At least that is not my problem. The problem is why Talisa? Why this Volantis woman instead of Jeyne? They kept the Crag and the Westerlings, hell they have even BEEN to the Crag but instead of making this woman Jeyne they created a whole new character. She serves the exact same purpose, the actress could fit the description for Jeyne, and they didn't entirely get rid of mention of the Crag/Westerlings so what do they gain by making her a Volantene medic instead of the daughter of a house of Westeros?

Yup.

Okay, for everyone complaining about Robb and Jeyne let's set a few things straight. Last episode Robb was heading to the Crag to broker a surrender, Catelyn releases Jaime after he killed Torrhen Karstark. Fast forward to this episode, we see Robb, Jeyne and a group of soldiers traveling somewhere, outriders are sent to bring Robb back to his camp because the Kingslayer is released, Robb goes to his camp, yells at Catelyn, bones Jeyne, realizes he is in love. My guess is that Robb has yet to go to the Crag and Tarlisa will still reveal herself as Jeyne Westerling before going to the Crag to broker a surrender/marriage.

Really hope you're right.

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3. Why make Jeyne from Volantis?

Cause otherwise it isn’t believable that Robb would get himself hitched to somebody he’s fighting against. The Westerlings are Lannister bannerman, after all. So the showrunners needed to find a way to make it believable. If he doesn’t think of her as an enemy, then maybe he can toss her a bone without fearing it’ll get nipped off by filed-down teeth.

Edited by CrypticWeirwood

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I didn't like Cat setting Jaime free before hearing of Bran and Rickon. It was the supposed death of her two sons that spurred her to free Jaime in the book. Freeing him before hearing of their deaths doesn't make as much sense. It seems out of character. Her act in the book was pure desparation. Here, there was no basis for such a rash act.

Sigh.

This again.

Jaime would've never lived to see the morning. Karstark was right there in camp, stirring-up trouble, as opposed to off with Robb like in the book. If anything, the way the show did it makes more sense, not less, than her letting him go in some desperate (and probably misguided) hope that it'll get her the girls back. She knows, for a fact, that if the Karstarks kill him, the girls are dead meat.

Edited by J.S. Crews

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Cause otherwise it isn’t believable that Robb would get himself hitched to somebody he’s fighting against. The Westerlings are Lannister bannerman, after all. So the showrunners needed to find a way to make it believable. If he doesn’t think of her as an enemy, then maybe he can toss her a bone without fearing it’ll get nipped off by filed-down teeth.

GRRM made it work in the book- the Westerlings were a family that used to be the power in the Westerlands before the rise of the Lannisters. Honestly, it's a stretch either way.

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Sigh. This again. Jaime would've never lived to see the morning. Karstark was right there in camp, stirring-up trouble, as opposed to off with Robb like in the book. If anything, the way the show did it makes more sense, not less, than her letting him go in some desperate (and probably misguided) hope that it'll get her the girls back. She know, for a fact, that if the Karstarks kill him, the girls are dead meat.
I agree with you. But I can also understand why others are bothered by it. In the books this is a reaction of Catelyn's because she thought she only had her two (maybe only one) children left besides Robb. Here, I can understand Karstark's anger that Catelyn released Jaime for her children while he can't get revenge for his. It just changes slightly the dynamics of the decision that Catelyn made.

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Cause otherwise it isn’t believable that Robb would get himself hitched to somebody he’s fighting against. The Westerlings are Lannister bannerman, after all. So the showrunners needed to find a way to make it believable. If he doesn’t think of her as an enemy, then maybe he can toss her a bone without fearing it’ll get nipped off by filed-down teeth.

So you are saying that the story as it is written by GRRM is unbelievable? Stop, take a breath, and think for a minute. I am sure you have a valid point here, but it just hasn't been delivered? Are you trying to say that the plot of Jeyne may be too convoluted to come across easily to a TV audience?

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Can we stop bitching about Robb and Talisa's scenes (I thoroughly enjoyed them tonight and completely understand the need to show Robb falling in love - esp. since they aged him up) and get to the matter at hand? The hottest chick on the show got NEKKID this week. Seriously. Oona is gorgeous. I may be girl-crushing. :drool:

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I agree with you. But I can also understand why others are bothered by it. In the books this is a reaction of Catelyn's because she thought she only had her two (maybe only one) children left besides Robb. Here, I can understand Karstark's anger that Catelyn released Jaime for her children while he can't get revenge for his. It just changes slightly the dynamics of the decision that Catelyn made.

I jut feel it was probably the least damaging and arguably the most plausible change we've seen thus far, yet people have lost their minds over it.

Edited by J.S. Crews

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Well, they're doing a good job of using Dagmar instead of Reek. Theon is rather naive, he thought the farmer would be alive instead of "fertilizing the fields."

Reek is coming - Roose has sent him to Winterfell.

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Sigh. This again. Jaime would've never lived to see the morning. Karstark was right there in camp, stirring-up trouble, as opposed to off with Robb like in the book. If anything, the way the show did it makes more sense, not less, than her letting him go in some desperate (and probably misguided) hope that it'll get her the girls back. She know, for a fact, that if the Karstarks kill him, the girls are dead meat.

What's with the condescension? Your explanation doesn't exactly hold water. Jaime killed Karstark's son- in the book and in the show- long before Cat let him loose. Karstark could have murdered him long before. Karstark was in Riverrun in the book while Jaime was prisoner, after the Whispering Woods, yet didn't kill him. He didn't, because he was obeying Robb. In the book, Karstark goes psycho after Cat releases Lannister.

Cat's rationale for releasing Jaime has nothing to with Karstark, and there's no absolute logic dictating that but for Cat's releasing him, he would have undoubtedly killed Jaime. It's a stretch.

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So you are saying that the story as it is written by GRRM is unbelievable? Stop, take a breath, and think for a minute. I am sure you have a valid point here, but it just hasn't been delivered? Are you trying to say that the plot of Jeyne may be too convoluted to come across easily to a TV audience?

Hey HP! I honestly believe in aging up Robb (and all of the characters) giving him a plausible, straight-forward love story with Talisa makes sense to me. Given the fact that Old Man Frey is going to be SUPER pissed that Robb has chosen a dirty foreigner (Re: GWB voice there), it's going to be even more of an insult than marrying a girl from the same level house that they Freys are, and still serves the same purpose (at an even deeper level) - getting the Freys to host the RW.

IMO, of course. :)

Edited by Mya Murphy MacManus

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Sigh. This again. Jaime would've never lived to see the morning. Karstark was right there in camp, stirring-up trouble, as opposed to off with Robb like in the book. If anything, the way the show did it makes more sense, not less, than her letting him go in some desperate (and probably misguided) hope that it'll get her the girls back. She knows, for a fact, that if the Karstarks kill him, the girls are dead meat.

and yet....

There Karstark was blabbering on about what she had done when mere hours before he himself was set on beheading Jaime, which would have been less an act of treason in what way exactly?

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