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[Book Spoilers] EP 208 Discussion

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No horses for the king and his escort at the riots...barely any horses for the crows beyond the wall...but plenty of horses for the Ironborn :P.

That's quite a funny observation. I was hoping to see less horses after "luck"'s cancellation though!

What I love about this show is that the ending was as close to a "happy" one as this show's going to get. And happy is "Theon burned two farm boys to death rather than the Stark kids"

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HBO really needs to get these last two episodes right...this episode was a snooze fest.

I watch the episodes with a group of friends each week (non-readers) and they have said that they do not even want to continue watching. Why is HBO focusing, and wasting so much time on meaningless scenes, only to leave out great moments in the book?

And if I hear Danny whine about being the mother of Dragons, I am going to scream. Granted she does not have the most interesting plot line in ACoK, but I would rather only see her charater every 4 episodes, than to have those horrible scenes like tonight...

Ugh..I digress

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Of course due to the changes the Robb / Cat argument is invalid as in the book Robb already [email protected]&€ up and married Jayne so the Freys already droped him as lord and ge is much more friendly to his mother "treason" so Edmure is the one who imprison her with their father on his death bed, but this is not a complaint just an observation

I just wondered who is protecting ER jayne from rape now and untill she joined the war effort as she is by far the only woman in Robb lowborn army (not including Cat& Brienne)

Also i wonder what NGO is she on as except for the silent sisters who are the field nurses by the book

Anyway they at least try this episode to link back to the book main plot

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Oona Chaplin naked :wideeyed:. Not saying she's worth a sword in the heart, but certainly a sword in the shoulder, possibly a leg.

Also, was that a Stannis scene I didn't hate? Hooray!

Edited by salt

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If Talissa ends up being actually a Volantene lady... after this episode I can actually get behind that. Now that she and Robb are actually talking to each other rather than the snarking from the earliest episodes, I'm a lot more sold on the two actors' chemistry. The description of the Volantis slave society was a nice touch foreshadowing for book 5.

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If Talissa ends up being actually a Volantene lady... after this episode I can actually get behind that. Now that she and Robb are actually talking to each other rather than the snarking from the earliest episodes, I'm a lot more sold on the two actors' chemistry. The description of the Volantis slave society was a nice touch foreshadowing for book 5.

I agree with this.

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I loved the descriptions of Volantis. It was a lot of name-dropping, which was nice. We heard that a Volantene lady's education involves recitation of Valyrian poetry (which is nice to know, since the everyday Volantene language has changed quite a bit from High Valyrian) and it was cool to hear about the Rhoyne. Yeah, she doesn't look Valyrian but it seems they're playing up the warmer climes of Volantis, so her tanned/Latin appearance works well for that.

And I feel like a pig for even saying this, but there's a face (and a body) that could launch a thousand ships... youch.

Varys continues to be spectacular, although I dunno about Bronn schooling everyone about how to defend a city. Seems like Tyrion should have an idea or two of his own, and it seems like reading books should be helpful (Napoleon learned a lot of the craft by reading Caesar). There is such a thing as the art of war, and military sciences. Sometimes I feel the show pushes a modernist mindset regarding commoners.

And of course, I was utterly enthralled to receive Hot Pie's words of wisdom. I learned more things about cherry pits than I had ever imagined. He is truly the prince that was promised.

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Bit slow this week, but I didn't mind it, bar a couple things.

Didn't like how they did Robb/Talisa. The story was so eye-rolling expected. Since they've kept in Theon killing the fake Bran and Rickon, I have no idea why they decided to keep Catilyn and Robb ignorant of it when grief from their deaths is perfect for tipping Cat over the edge and releasing Jaime, and for Robb to break his marriage vow and sleep with another woman. The change to Cat's actions isn't too bad since the core reasoning, to get Sansa and Arya back, is the same, but the change to Robb's felt really hollow as "oh, god, my brothers are dead, I need comforting" just works better than how cheesy they played it up for romance. I totally get the need to "show, not tell" and that the Robb romance had to be on screen; I just wish it was being done slightly differently.

I also missed "weasel soup," but unlike the above, I totally understand why they cut it. In general, Arya's story feels kind of truncated, but it's been pretty well executed so I don't mind.

My biggest "Yay, we're going to get-- aww..." moment of the episode was Tyrion asking Varys what he wanted. With all the focus on Varys in this episode, I thought for sure we were going to get Varys' backstory about when he was castrated and how he hates magic. I was a bit crushed when I realized the scene had ended.

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He essentially quoted Maggy the Frog's prophecy word for word. GRRM has said multiple times in interviews that D&D have insight into how the series will end. I think that scene was a tip of the cap to all those who assumed it be him over Jaime. We'll see if lefty ends up killing her, but that scene confirms Tyrion for me.

Huh? What? Citation plz.

"Robb and Talisa or whoever - meh. I don't see what we gain from this." Man I really really really don't understand people who are saying this. What we gain from this is a path to what could be one of the most amazing scenes on TV ever. Rob just can't show up and be married without us seeing how it happens. It has to be passionate as breaking his vow is a very, very big deal. So what we're seeing with Rob and Talisa/Jeyne and Cat releasing Jamie is set up for the Red Wedding. This stuff is ESSENTIAL for people who haven't read the books.

Uh, yeah, they did need to show his falling-in-love-and-marriage on-screen... that's not what people are objecting to. They're objecting because the storyline D&D wrote is cliché, boring, unbelievable and stupid.

Sigh. This again. Jaime would've never lived to see the morning. Karstark was right there in camp, stirring-up trouble, as opposed to off with Robb like in the book. If anything, the way the show did it makes more sense, not less, than her letting him go in some desperate (and probably misguided) hope that it'll get her the girls back. She knows, for a fact, that if the Karstarks kill him, the girls are dead meat.

Except, you know, Catelyn didn't even tell Robb that this was the reason she freed Jaime. Instead she just looked stupid and pathetic.

It’s ridiculous and it’s painful. It is annoying. It subtracts from the experience. It’s fucking assinine.

Funny, I feel the same about your bitching.

I honestly don't understand all the complaints about not getting weasel soup. I mean, if TV Arya isn't known as "Weasel", how or why can they have weasel soup in the same way as the book? Get over it, people! Yes, it was a 'fun' part of the book with Arya, but in the overall context of her storyline across this asnd the next 3 books, it was a tiny little detail that really has absolutely no long term signficance. Talk about griping over inconsequential changes!
*facepalm* People aren't disappointed because there wasn't a scene called that literally... they are disappointed that Arya didn't use Jaqen's name to participate in an awesome scheme that resulted in a slaughterhouse, which is very important for Arya's development, and they're disappointed that she didn't even get to kill her own guard while escaping. When they say "no weasel soup, boo!" they mean that there isn't even a similar scene that would replace what was referred to as the "weasel soup" in the book. Of course it wouldn't be called that in the TV show, but that's not the point.

"Tiny detail with no long-term significance"? Ugh, yeah, nevermind the House of Black and White and the Faceless Men and the whole assassin-in-training thing...

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Is there really this huge clamor to know more about Volantis? It seems weird to infodump something that will not become even remotely relevant until they hit ADWD, if then. Why not make her from Astapor, Yunkai, or Mereen? Or Bravoos? It just seems odd. It's hard for me to see why including info about Volantis is a big positive.

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I don't mind the "Talisa" thing in itself, but I just don't see how they're going to have Robb marry her without being even more of an idiot than in the books. At least in the books, he only slept with her when he was wounded and emotionally unstable due to hearing about Bran and Rickon, and then married her afterwards for her honour. But in the show, there's no reason why he wouldn't be perfectly clear-headed when he has sex with her (he's not injured and hasn't heard about his brothers) so he knows what he's doing, and he's a grown man as opposed to a 16 year old. It's going to be a lot harder to sympathise with him when he screws up the war and loses his kingdom and the lives of his men over an infatuation.

That said, I enjoyed the Stannis bits, as well as Jaime and Brienne and the scenes in KL. The Harrenhal scenes are always nicely acted and entertaining but I agree with what people are saying about Arya's development. Fast-forwarded through Jon and Dany.

Edited by rmanoj

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It will be hard for book worms like me to understand why Robb will marry Talysa as she isnt from a respectable noble family or her honor is not that a big deal as Karstark calls his kings lover "foreigh bitch" and as i said the Freys dont mind Robb sleeping around as lord Frey has lots of bastards himself

The catalyst of their RW is Robb braking his betrohal to the Frey girl

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Two things re: Robb:

First, I found this.

And...

I just re-watched ep. 8 and he and Talisa/Tulisa/whatever are definitely walking toward Robb's camp, as in having been to the Crag and are now returning. The rider coming from the camp approaches them from the front.

EDIT: This was talked about earlier in the thread i.e. whether or not they'd already been to the Crag or were going there and were called back.

Edited by J.S. Crews

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Don't like the changes too much......

Negatives...Robb / Talisa ...I don't see the point of it...

Arya / Tywin.....It was interesting to see the chemistry between the two actors but really it would of been better if it was Bolton /Arya

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I'm starting to think they are setting Jeyne up to betray Robb, why else would she continue this charade?

I'm thinking that Talisa is going to turn out to be the daughter of Gerion Lannister, Tywin's youngest brother who was last seen in Volantis before he sailed off into Smoking Sea looking for Brightroar amid the ruins of Valyria. As to whether or not she'll turn out to be working or spying for Twywin... no idea.

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Episode was boring...I hate Catelyn Stark, she starts this whole war capturing Tyrion which gets her husband killed, and then betrays her son which assists in getting him killed.

Anyone know why they don't just call Theon's Sister Asha? Doesn't really make a difference just odd.

Really wished they would have at least shown Dany at the HOTU and accomplished something this episode besides pure set up.

Because Asha sounds too much like Osha. Same reason they called Robert Aryn Robin. Too many Robbs and Roberts. Easy to know the difference if you are reading. Hard to keep track of on tv.

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Than why are they calling jayne talisa so that we dont bitch she isnt just like in the books

I really think she will start a baywatch/ lifeguard program in westeros just to get over her childhood drama

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I agree with the sentiments that yes, weasel soup was a great and memorable part of aCoK, but it getting written out didn't leave me pouting by any means. try and keep in mind how great it is that this story is being adapted in the first place (and by very capable writers and actors) when you are watching, rather than post things like "I literally had to turn it off" just because of minor changes. It kinda makes me think that yall "purists" don't really deserve any adaptation at all because you aren't grown up enough to deal with it. on a completely different note, does anyone else leave HBO on after and watch Veep? I find it delightful.

When they announced Oona Chaplin joining the cast, they said she would play someone named Jeyne. At the time, the discussion (in the Casting discussion on this board) was whether she would be Jeyne Poole or Jeyne Westerling. Unless they've subsequently changed their minds, I think they will reveal her as Jeyne Westerling...

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So, Karstark going to kill Kingslayer is what replaces Bran and Rickon's death for Cat, Catelyn's betrayal is what replaces it for Robb. That and this Talisa is ten times the woman Jeyne ever was. C'mon guys, her only characteristic of note were her childbearing hips. I nodded off a little during Talisa backstory but it's okay. I still have high hopes it'll all be one hell of a ruse.

Yara/Asha was good too. I always felt the Ironborn were morons here. Yeah, your strength lies in the sea. You still went to war against the North and you aren't going to conquer it or be ready when Robb goes North by harrying a few villages and staying at sea. Either don't go to war or do it properly. Theon's chances weren't fantastic, but at least he committed to the hopeless war they started. Balon and Asha had learned absolutely nothing from Theon's brothers deaths and would've steered towards the same old end if not for Euron. But here Yara when they were alone went for different angle. A Ironbron dies at sea. She wants her brother to be an ironborn win or lose. Theon doesn't get this, he doesn't see how being Prince of Winterfell and Ironborn are two different things. Which is what his character arc is all about.

Varys, Tyrion, Bronn's greatness go without saying. Though i wouldn't mind Tyrion actually coming up with some ideas for the defense every now and then rather then just tell us he's smart and thinking about it.

Stannis was the Stannis I know and love this episode, I wasn't too sure in the past, but I wasn't sure in the books at the time either. He and Davos have a great bromance.

Ser Kevan showing up and showing us he cares is nice. Jaqen and Arya were great but I'll miss Arya being able to interact with Jaqen and Tywin rather then Hot Pie and gendry. Though Gendry is pretty cool. Maybe Jaqen will replace her FM mentor in later seasons...

I'm disappointed that Luwin won't be revealing he knew all along on his deathbed, but this gives potential for him and Bran to speak again unjured in the next episode one last time which is cool.

I like Jorah's being all "off course i remember you stepping out of flames unburnt. You were supernaked. I think about that moment every second of every day."

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I suppose I'll also have to admit that I was stupidly wrong in thinking they wouldn't use Ros in Alayaya's role. I thought it wouldn't make any sense why Cersei would think she meant something to Tyrion, but I guess it was fine, and it was obviously pretty predictable, since everyone else predicted it. Ah well.

I saw it coming, but I think that it would have been better if we'd seen a conversation with Tyrion and Ros after he arrived in KL to remind viewers that she's the same prostitute from his first scene in the series. That conversation could have been observed by someone, who told Cersei.

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