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[Book Spoilers] EP 209 Discussion

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I for one am glad he's keeping his nose. CGI budget would have been wasted on a Voldemort-esque transformation in my opinion. The Rains of Castamere is now on repeat until I get tired of it. One of the best episodes so far.

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I thought it was pretty clear that it was a member of the Kingsguard that slashed Tyrion. Tyrion first had that sigh of relief that he was there, then got a curious look on his face, then wham. Down.

Plus, someone called him Mandon. Big tipoff.

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I loved how Tyrion and Bronn looked at the wildfire-nuke they set off. First, they looked with surprise that it worked, then they looked away because it was too bright, and then they looked in amazement and horror. As a spectator to both sides one couldn't help but have mixed feelings. Book readers sympathize with both Davos and Tyrion, and that part of the story pits them directly against one another.

I know it didn't explicitly say it anywhere in the books, but I always sort of took it for granted that Loras was Renly's ghost.

Who else but Loras would lead the Tyrell vanguard to save the king? His father wanted his daughter to marry the king, and the suit fit!

This better win someone at least one Emmy, it was the best hour of TV I've seen in a long time.

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There is absolutely no chance they will do that. Why on earth would they cut out Arya's entire Storm of Swords story? She has the most chapters of any character in that book. After Storm of Swords, she has five chapters where very little happens.

So, somewhere after 2015 when they catch up to where the books are now, HBO will still be supporting the effort? I wouldn't use the words "absolutely no chance." I would miss it but there's a lot that could be cut for the series to arrive at the current state considerably faster than 3 years from now.. We just have to wait and see.

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Seriously? I kind of feel bad for you.

Yeah. It was just there, got nothing out of it. Glad everyone else seems to have enjoyed it, though!

Queued it up for a rerun just in case…

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I loved how Tyrion and Bronn looked at the wildfire-nuke they set off. First, they looked with surprise that it worked, then they looked away because it was too bright, and then they looked in amazement and horror. As a spectator to both sides one couldn't help but have mixed feelings. Book readers sympathize with both Davos and Tyrion, and that part of the story pits them directly against one another.

I know it didn't explicitly say it anywhere in the books, but I always sort of took it for granted that Loras was Renly's ghost.

Who else but Loras would lead the Tyrell vanguard to save the king? His father wanted his daughter to marry the king, and the suit fit!

This better win someone at least one Emmy, it was the best hour of TV I've seen in a long time.

In the books, Garlan, Loras's older brother, is Renly's ghost. Loras is fighting as himself. I think the TV version makes more sense.

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I know it didn't explicitly say it anywhere in the books, but I always sort of took it for granted that Loras was Renly's ghost.

It was explicitly said by Loras that his brother Garlan was Renly's Ghost because he fit Renly's armor better.

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. Finally, if they had just put a little more effort into showing Renly in some really unique armor earlier in the season then the arrival of the "ghost" would have held some weight. As it was, my father looked at me and said, "who is this now?" Even after they showed Loras and Tywin he had no idea Loras was wearing Renly's armor.

Right! Was he wearing the antlered crown? Wihtout reading the books that was unknowable.

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In the books, Garlan, Loras's older brother, is Renly's ghost. Loras is fighting as himself. I think the TV version makes more sense.

I loved this change from the books. I loved how the helm had the antlers too. And the first time I read it I was confused as to who it was. I think it will help the non book readers understand it a bit better and hopefully later we'll get the "when the sun is gone no candle can replace it" line. It's one of my favorites.

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It sounded like she said four too.

I liked the bit about Tywin believing in the Gods but not trusting them.

Last week Joff said Stannis never smiles, now Tywin is the one that doesn't like Gods. Are Tywin and Stannis gonna keep trading character traits?

In the books, Garlan, Loras's older brother, is Renly's ghost. Loras is fighting as himself. I think the TV version makes more sense.

Well in the books Renly is quite a bit taller then Loras.

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@ ckal and craven mummers

sorry, i stepped away for a moment. to clarify, i was referring to the table of contents in the kindle version, when i read CoK the table of contents was all names. in SoS the table of content are numbers, however the individual chapters are still names, arya, jon, catlynn etc.

Edited by timstanton

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For book readers: Anyone else think Martin's dropping hints for future books? I thought the Cersei-Sansa exchange where Cersei was talking about Sansa being a "younger, beautiful" queen(that's what I took it as anyway), seemed like a hint on that prophecys front?

That's a good one. The one I picked up had to do with Varys and Tyrion.

I don't trust Varys. Not at all. That early scene with him and Tyrion, the way he spoke about dark magics... I know his whole story, and why he would be bothered by magic, but I don't trust him.

I think he was being honest. Melisandre's magic is indeed very dark, and we know that Varys' loyalties are to the Targaryen family. I think that we got a hint on that front:

The Dark Arts have provided Lord Stannis with his armies, and paved his path to our door. For a man in service to such powers to sit on the Iron Throne....I can think of nothing worse. And tonight, I believe you are the only man who can stop him.

What is he getting at? Perhaps it's just having discovered Varys' loyalties in ADWD, but it definitely hit me as a hint in that direction, since we know Aerys had a thing for Tyrion's mother, and there are other hints as well that Tyrion might have Targaryen blood. I looked in the books to see if that scene was there, and found this instead:

"Men are such faithless creatures," he said by way of greeting.

Tyrion sighed. "Who's the traitor today?"

The eunuch handed him a scroll. "So much villainy, it sings a sad song for our age. Did honor die with our fathers?"

"My father is not dead yet."

Was Varys trying to hint that Tyrion's father was dead? Since GRRM wrote the episode, I really have to wonder about that. I was hoping for a hint about Jon soon, but got one about Tyrion instead.

I forget how this relates to the books, but based on the warning that Varys gives Tyrion, are we to believe that the King's Landing folks should feel much relieved the Melisandre was not a part of the Blackwater?

Yes, that's very strongly implied in the books. And in the show, too, so far.

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All the acting was amazing, but as a Tommen loyalist, who hopes against hope he will 1) survive, 2) hold on to the Iron Throne somehow (I know, I know), I have to give credit to that little actor - he was awesome, holding his own with Lena Headey. That was by far her best performance in the series - she just gets better and better and more and more comfortable with Cercei. I liked how she was more of the Bitch Queen we remember but still somehow sympathetic, especially at the end. And I felt like Rory McCann did as much as possible to make up for the Hound's missing moments this season - the main stuff really came through in this episode, and he did sort of convey that feeling that perhaps the Hound might want to kiss Sansa but in a way that wouldn't freak anyone out - much milder than in the books. But I think if they want to add the unkiss later (they may not), it wasn't ruled out or anything. I also really liked Lancel, although I wish they had let him fight a little more before the arrow - I remember him as being very brave in the book, which I thought was a nice surprise.

I loved the way they staged that final scene in the throneroom - the total dark emptiness of it in contrast to all the other places we've seen throughout the episode. It'll be interesting to see if they use a different versions of the Rains of Castamere each time it appears.

I hope this bodes well for the battle at the wall! That should be epic next (?) season, if they can do it half as well as this!

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Ok, so I just watched through it again and noticed something.

It might just be me but the actor who plays the Baratheon soldier that tells Stannis "but...hundreds will die"(Stannis replies "thousands") looks almost exactly like the actor that played Renly Baratheon. When his voice cracks he even sounds like Renly. Anyone??

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Nitpick: Hearteater isn't a Valyrian sword, it's just a normal sword. Widow's Wail is the Valyrian sword he gets as a wedding gift from Tywin (who melted down Ice :( to make it and Oathkeeper).

Thanks for clearing that up I got confused in the names I guess and Hearteater looked really sweet it looked like it had the gem in the hilt Edited by Arbor Gold I'm Sold

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Been lurking since season one fucking love the books, always trolling the TWOW discussion and all that but it was the series that brought this GOAT(Greatest Of All Time) story into my life and Holy Fuckin Shit...... Epic!!!!!!!!

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Was there an antler crown. Without that how was anyone to know it was supposed to be Renley?

Yes, there were antlers on his helm. You can see it clearly during the battle scenes, and later in the throne room. Plus, Loras was riding a white horse- remember Renly's horse when he met Stannis? ;)

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Incredible episode really, but not impervious to nitpicking :P

Anyone got the same feeling that book readers got way much more from the episode than non-readers? For instance two examples:

1 - Mandon Moore: Am I the only one that thought that Mandon Moore was poorly introduced, and/or was poorly depicted in the scene where he slashed Tyrion? I mean, if I haven't read the books I wouldn't be sure about who he was. In the middle of all those armors, he din't stand out

2 - Renly ghost: The show made a point of showing Loras in an armor during the fight, but I doubt non book readers would know: 1 - This was Renlys armor 2- This was ANY armor at all.

Leaving these nitpicks behind, awesome episode, easily one of the best from GOT

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In the books, Garlan, Loras's older brother, is Renly's ghost. Loras is fighting as himself. I think the TV version makes more sense.

yes good memory I think Loras said something about how the armor wouldn't fit him

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