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[Book Spoilers] EP 209 Discussion

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As for S3, I think they will manipulate the timeline a bit and give us the purple wedding to end Season 3, with the Red Wedding in Ep8. S4 (at KL) will cover the aftermath (moving the arrival of Dorne to S4 since you need the Red Viper later). I am hoping they learn from the good and bad from S2 and keep things focused more. Save the Wall major stuff for S4. This plan would also give them "happy" endings for 2 seasons in a row (Purple Wedding and then Stannis's face turn), after downers ending S1 (we got dragons, but the emotion was Khal Drogo's death) and S2 (Winterfell burning).

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This is why I stuck with this disappointing season with confidence. Thank you GRRM, that was beautiful. The battle, the dialogue, the epic-ness. All great. I love how much time there was devoted to the Hound and Bronn. Two secondary characters, but definitely two of my favorite characters.

My one complaint: Stannis was the first one to touch the shores? Stannis being the first to scale the walls? Stannis argued when the retreat was necessary? Stannis would not act like that. He would know when/if the retreat it necessary and take it. He is objective in his own Stannisy way. But hell, GRRM wrote it.

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Any man dies with a clean sword, I will rape his fucking corpse! Possibly the greatest line in the history of battle scenes.

Yeh, it was pretty funny when he said it.

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Any man dies with a clean sword, I will rape his fucking corpse! Possibly the greatest line in the history of battle scenes.

"If any of these flaming fucking arrows come near me, I'll strangle you with your own guts" That line that pretty awesome too.

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As for S3, I think they will manipulate the timeline a bit and give us the purple wedding to end Season 3, with the Red Wedding in Ep8. S4 (at KL) will cover the aftermath (moving the arrival of Dorne to S4 since you need the Red Viper later). I am hoping they learn from the good and bad from S2 and keep things focused more. Save the Wall major stuff for S4. This plan would also give them "happy" endings for 2 seasons in a row (Purple Wedding and then Stannis's face turn), after downers ending S1 (we got dragons, but the emotion was Khal Drogo's death) and S2 (Winterfell burning).

It's just me ... but I love the stuff in the East.

Man how are they going to get all that in two seasons?

Of all the scenes in all five novels that surprised me the most was DRACARYS. When I read the lead up to that I thought

"No way in hell Dany's gonna get out this."

Then she (well George) surprised the crap out of me!

I hope D and D can get HBO to pony up for that one.

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Ummm - looked to me like he got shot on the right and punched on the right. Darn now I have to watch it AGAIN

Cersei did punch him on the left side. I've never been shot with an arrow, but since it happened like 1/2 an hour before this, I'd assume that even getting hit on...anywhere...on the upper body would hurt since he still has a hole in his shoulder.

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I just wanted to point out how funny the "Stannis would never lead the charge!" comments are when you consider that the man who invented Stannis and knows him better than anybody wrote the episode,

I think the complaint is that a king would not lead the charge (even Robb is surrounded by his own men). I say in my post that my complaints are all moot because it is all coming from the source, but it still seemed out of place. I think it was a classic "give them a show" scene. Why would we want to see some bannerman storming the shores and climbing the walls?

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Could someone set up a pre-airing discussion thread for Valar Morghulis, can't be arsed to do it myself right now.

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It's just me ... but I love the stuff in the East.

Man how are they going to get all that in two seasons?

Of all the scenes in all five novels that surprised me the most was DRACARYS. When I read the lead up to that I thought

"No way in hell Dany's gonna get out this."

Then she (well George) surprised the crap out of me!

I hope D and D can get HBO to pony up for that one.

Dany is one of my favorite characters in the book (and who I want to sit the IT at the end). Her story will certainly be kept (it is probably the second best storyline of SoS, after Jaime/Brienne.). However, since they split the book, they should take advantage of that and focus on less stories each season, and keep the others simmering in the background. Having Dany simmer for Season 3 will also give time for her dragons to grow (though I expect they will be grown by the warlocks in Ep10 anyway). Or you could make it part of season 3 and have it simmer in season 4, that may actually make more sense, since season 4 simmering, we could begin to see her as a true queen as she rules. Look how strong this episode was, party because of all the action, but also due to focus. It was one story and scenes had time to be fully developed.

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Can a sword really slice the top of a head clean off like Stannis' did?

There's some callback to the beheading of Ser Rodrik here. If you recall it weakened Theon's character when he couldn't carry out the execution cleanly - it didn't just speak of his physical strength it also said that he wasn't ready to lead, his position was false. The gruesome scene in Blackwater told you about Stannis, his physical strength, his ability, and it alluded to his strength of character.

Also, this was discussed in a scene from Spartacus: Vengeance earlier this year.

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Looked to me like Stannis also has the bad ass kill mother fuckers on the battlefield gene that big brother Robert had.

Yes it was unrealistic that the king would be the 1st guy on shore and up a ladder but it was pretty bad ass and fun to watch!

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I have to say that I had never heard of SanSan until last night. I had thought that I&F was immune to the shipper crap that almost ruined Lost fandom. Guess I was wrong. :-/

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I think the complaint is that a king would not lead the charge (even Robb is surrounded by his own men). I say in my post that my complaints are all moot because it is all coming from the source, but it still seemed out of place. I think it was a classic "give them a show" scene. Why would we want to see some bannerman storming the shores and climbing the walls?

No one had a problem with it when Robert or Robb did it. Or Victarion. Sansa even comments on it, and the importance of a King fighting alongside his men is stressed many times by Tyrion on the matter of Joffrey to 'prepare' us for this scene, so to speak. It was brilliantly set up really, and I loved the juxtapose between Joffrey's sniveling and Stannis' badassery. Jaime, too, leads from the front. In this case, it was GRRM cleverly showing Stannis' pragmatism in combat. They've just taken a huge hit, their field commander appears to have died, his men were showing doubt... So Stannis decides to lead the charge (also surrounded by his own men, he was in front but it's not like he was way ahead of them), much in the same way Tyrion decided to lead his men to inspire them. It also has something to do with how the battle was adapted: here the attack came directly from the sea, in the books the army was split in two parts by the river they had to cross to attack the wall and they had great difficulties in getting across. It makes more sense for him to lead here where Stannis is able to land himself and a large portion of his army relatively securely and there is not an army still behind him that needs directions.

Edited by StannisandDaeny

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@Shadow of Death. That is true . . maybe someone with a knowledge of primitive war fair, i.e. war fare of sword, bashing instruments and fire, can enlighten us? It seems usually the commanders and kings were in the rear with the gear with only field captain types out there leading the troops. I remmeber in "Rome" when Marc Antony and Octavian were in the rear at the battle of Philippi.

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This was amazing. One of the best episodes of the series so far, probably the best of the season. The wildfire scene was beautiful. What was actually happening was horrific, but the imagery of the green flames rising on the ships and on the black water was breathtaking.

Lena Headey really shown this episode. That scene with her and Tommen was superb. Everybody did great this episode for me, particularly the characters whose name starts with "s": Sansa, Sandor, Stannis, and even Shae. Shae has become more likable these past few episodes. Its a shame we didn't get one or two more scenes between her and Tyrion like the one with them in bed this episode. It would have helped us understand why Tyrion has fooled himself into falling in love with her and cares deeply for her.

Sandor was also at his best. "Fuck the King" :bowdown: Hell yeah. The confrontation between him and Bronn was great.

"Your just like me, only smaller." - Sandor

"And quicker, eh" - Bronn

I'm ain't gonna front, though. I was expecting a little more from the Sansa bedroom scene. It was one of my favorite moments in the books, but I know it would not have translated well on screen. I just thought we would get at least a non-kiss, a sort of editing trick to give us a "did he or didn't he kiss her" like in the books with Sansa's fuzzy memory. Maybe that would be too much, I know that SanSan is not an endgame, but I saw the dynamic between them to be more of an important factor in their own personal development and character growth, for both Sansa and Sandor. I at least wanted her to touch his face or something to that effect.

Stannis was fucking incredible and unstoppable. Stephen Dillane really brought Stannis up a notch in my eyes. I loved his reaction to the wildfire. My favorite Stannis moment was right before they proceed to KL, he turns looks at his men, looks like he struggles to find something inspiring to say, and then goes "Come with me and take this city". LOL. Nowhere near as awesome as Tyrion's speech, but his conviction sold it.

Tyrion was the bomb. I loved him sneaking up behind the soldier and cutting him down. His "fuck me" was a line delivered perfectly. YAY for Podrick!!

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