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[Book Spoilers] EP 209 Discussion

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Ok who is the guy who walked in with Sandor Clegane.....His Drinking Buddy? the hound must think him "Harder" than Bronn

Someone Please Speculate or if there's a definite answer...... He's Blond So probably a Lannister...

I was Curious he doesn't seem to be a "Hardened" Solider like Clegane or Bronn and he stares at the empty cup in his hands so well

Edited by Lord Rickard Snow

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"Blindly trusting"? Is that the alternative to wishing the same fate on Tyrion as on Joffrey? They are not even fighitng the Starks. They are fighting Stannis who according to Cersei will kill Sansa as he kills the Lannisters. That is not so far-fetched as Stannis considers the Starks traitors. Look what Stannis does to traitors such as his younger brother.

For one thing I'm not going to start an argument over that but I believe Stannis didn't directly order Renly's death and only half realised what really happened.That doesn't excuse him but that's still a far cry from ordering his death. That's what it seemed to be in the books, they changed it a lot in the show. And no, I don't believe Stannis would have killed her. He's ridiculously "fair" but he punishes criminals for what they did. I highly doubt he would have killed Sansa for Robb being a traitor.

Besides Tyrion isn't required to survive the battle for it to be won.He's not fighting the Starks right now, but he might eventually. Maybe it doesn't exactly fit book Sansa but think Sansa's line to Tyrion is the contrary of a display of naivety. And well, Martin wrote it so I suppose it does fit .

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And well, Martin wrote it so I suppose it does fit .

That sort of reasoning works if everything in a fictional work makes sense.

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Awsome!!!

But...Why didn't Varys tell his story? What are they waiting for? :frown5:

Edited by Samalander

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That sort of reasoning works if everything in a fictional work makes sense.

I meant "fit" with the book series. Concerning what I wrote before about Sansa being different in the books.

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10 minutes to go here in Oireland.Hope you guys haven't overhyped it!!!!

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I meant "fit" with the book series. Concerning what I wrote before about Sansa being different in the books.

I don't think that quote is in the book. If it were that would not make it more sensible. If its not, as I believe, than it was added for TV. As I said before its a nice throw away line, but doesn't correctly reflect what a reasoning Sansa should think. The motives for putting a line in a mouth are not the same as what is sensible in every case.

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I don't think that quote is in the book. If it were that would not make it more sensible.

That's what I meant: It's not in the book , in the books she does pray for Tyrion actually. I was just saying I wasn't going to argue about that since Martin wrote the episode too.

If its not, as I believe, than it was added for TV. As I said before its a nice throw away line, but doesn't correctly reflect what a reasoning Sansa should think. The motives for putting a line in a mouth are not the same as what is sensible in every case.

Of course not. But for me they make sense here. For the reasons I already mentioned.

Edited by Fantôme

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That's what I meant. It's not in the book , in the books she does pray for Tyrion actually. I just meant I wasn't going to argue about that since Martin wrote the episode too.

Of course not. But for me they make sense here. For the reasons I already mentioned

And that implies that the book doesn't make sense for you? Or both make sense? If a thing and its opposite make sense, why bother arguing about what makes sense?

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Some thoughts on episode nine.

  • Wow! That was awesome! They did all one could ask for for a TV show. It wasn't the Battle of Pelennor Fields, but it sure was the TV equivalent. Epic! :bowdown:
  • I cannot help liking Stannis just a little bit. He might have the personality of a lobster, but he's brave and resourceful, and first in the line of battle, even fighting on top of the wall.
  • I really like Davos too, even if he sails into a trap.
  • Sansa, you clever girl tricking Joffrey to be in the vanguard by comparing him to her brother. Too bad he chickened out.
  • I still don't buy the Tyrion/Shae love story. They should have had a different actress, not this former porn star.
  • I liked the Rains of Castamere sing along.
  • Only one gratuitous nude scene with some random wench.
  • I also liked the Bronn/Hound confrontation, and then later when Bronn saved Sandor's life.
  • I didn't care much for Book-Bronn but I like HBO-Bronn.
  • I'm also a big Hound fan, and cheered when he dissed the King. I cannot recall if he did that in the book, but I'm thinking not.
  • For all his bravado about killing, all the fires were too much for him and the Hound deserted. I can sympathize, especially since he obviously doesn't loathes the boy king he's supposed to protect.
  • They did a nice Sandor/Sansa scene, even though I think it should have benefited if they had done some previous scenes between them. He obviously cares for the little bird, and she sees that he won't hurt her. But, like in the book, I cannot understand why she didn't take up his offer of bringing her along.
  • I really dig the rapport between Tyrion and Varys. Their talk was great, even if it wasn't as great as the one in the episode before. They could have those two just talking for an hour and it would be terrific.
  • Tyrion rules! He saves everything both with the wildfire scheme and then leading men into battle after the King and the Hound both disappeared. "Half-man! Half-man! Half-man!"
  • As I suspected the didn't use the chains across the bay. There really was no need.
  • It was clear that Tywin arrived to save the day, but blink and you might have missed Loras, so it wasn't too clear that the Tyrell's had joined the Lannisters. I suppose that will be more evident in the next episode, when Littlefinger will appear.
  • Cersei does have a loving side when it comes to her children. Her and Tommen in the throne room was rather moving.
  • It was the right choice to have all the scenes set in King's Landing and the Blackwater, despite other locations showed in the opening credits.
  • This was easily the best episode this season.

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And that implies that the book doesn't make sense for you? Or both make sense? If a thing and its opposite make sense, why bother arguing about what makes sense?

Show : Makes sense with a Sansa that won't let herself trust or like a Lannister again.

Book: Makes sense with a softer Sansa.

They just portray two slightly different evolutions of the character. But I believe it was useful in the show because of how Sansa has (not) been portrayed in previous episodes. And like Mooncat said, might help explain her reaction to the forced marriage to viewers because right now, Tyrion seems like he should be her hero.

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They just portray two slightly different evolutions of the character. But I believe it was useful in the show because of how Sansa has (not) been portrayed in previous episodes. And like Mooncat said, might help explain her reaction to the forced marriage to viewers because right now, Tyrion seems like he should be her hero.

Great! so the opposites, and written by the same person, both make sense. That's called having it your own way, both ways, and every which way. I now see the error of MY way.

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Season 2 has been a bit iffy, but this was an excellent episode.

No one on the show or in real life knows what is in another's mind. All we can go on is their acts. What conceivable advantage can it be for Tyrion to show Sansa kindness when she is already trapped at KL? Much easier for him to go along with Joff's sadism. If Sansa has no reasoning ability, just say so, and leave it at that.

Like Joffrey with the necklace, he could be luring her in to destroy her. Pointlessly antagonizing people means giving them a reason to strike back if they ever have the chance. Being nice to them can be profitable. It's not easier to go along with Joffrey, it's stupid, and Tyrion's motivations are personal rather than based on kindness towards Sansa - he wants Jaime back and he knows that keeping Sansa relatively safe (that is, not beaten too publicly, he doesn't interfere before that) helps Jaime's odds of surviving. And book Tyrion does end up agreeing to participate in Sansa's abuse when he decides to marry her to get Winterfell, doesn't tell her about that plan until the day it's carried through, chains her to the family that has abused her and a marriage that will keep her in danger of being raped by Joffrey, gropes the frightened 12-year-old, and proceeds to whine about how she wouldn't kneel to save his pride or become his loving fantasy girlfriend, because obviously he's the one suffering in that situation. Sansa is actually being perfectly intelligent by not trusting Tyrion since his goals are the opposite of hers (they involve the defeat of her family and later the claiming of Winterfell through marrying her), and it's not trusting him that allows her to escape her forced marriage, Lannister abuse and a city where she has no one interested in prioritising her safety or even in helping themselves by helping her. She sees what Tyrion fans can't, that he's not on her side.

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Tyrion's motivations are personal rather than based on kindness towards Sansa - he wants Jaime back and he knows that keeping Sansa relatively safe (that is, not beaten too publicly, he doesn't interfere before that) helps Jaime's odds of surviving.

Exactly! And that is why she shouldnt condemn him to death with a pithy quote in the same way she condemns good ole Joff.

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Great! so the opposites, and written by the same person, both make sense. That's called having it your own way, both ways, and every which way. I now see the error of MY way.

They show slightly different evolutions of the character which are both perfectly possible why wouldn't it make sense. You might be right if the show had perfectly respected Sansa's character so far. Which isn't the case.

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and Tyrion's motivations are personal rather than based on kindness towards Sansa - he wants Jaime back and he knows that keeping Sansa relatively safe (that is, not beaten too publicly, he doesn't interfere before that) helps Jaime's odds of surviving.

Exactly! And that is why she shouldnt condemn him to death with a pithy quote in the same way she condemns good ole Joff.

And she knows that?

Edited by Fantôme

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