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[Book Spoilers] EP 209 Discussion

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They show slightly different evolutions of the character which are both perfectly possible why wouldn't it make sense. You might be right if the show had perfectly respected Sansa's character so far. Which isn't the case.

Here's another WAY of looking at it. Sansa is the same in book and series. GRRM wanted to put a pithy line in her mouth. And the people who want to make "sense" of it, bend logic into a cinammon pretzel to do so.

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And she knows that?

According to you she knows Tyrion is trying to ingratiate himself for ulterior motives and she should condemn him to death. According to Miryana he wants to better the chances of getting back Jaime, i.e. an ulterior motive. Now you say she does not know. Can you keep your objections consistent? Or since logic doesnt matter, do I have to concede this as well?

Edited by Harrad

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Here's another WAY of looking at it. Sansa is the same in book and series. GRRM wanted to put a pithy line in her mouth. And the people who want to make "sense" of it, bend logic into a cinammon pretzel to do so.

Except that you're not convincingly showing that either lines don't make sense so no need to bend anything so far. And no, in the show , Sansa was not the same as in the books in the previous episodes.

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According to you she knows Tyrion is trying to ingratiate himself for ulterior motives and she should condemn him to death. According to Miryana he wants to better the chances of getting back Jaime, i.e. an ulterior motive. Now you say she does not know. Can you keep your objections consistent? Or since logic doesnt matter, do I have to concede this as well?

You might want to read my posts again if you want to make a point. What I said is that he's her family's enemy which is why she might wish him dead ,and that he might want to manipulate her so it's safer to assume so . And yes, I don't believe she knows his purpose is related to Jaime or anything else. I'm curious of where you see a contradiction in that.

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Sansa was not the same as in the books in the previous episodes.

All right! With the understanding that there are two entirely different characters Sansa Book and Sansa HBO, then I willingly agree that the opposite rings true for the two very different creations. Both characters are the eldest daughter of Ned Stark, betrothed to Joffrey Baratheion, held hostage at KL, abused by the King, taunted by the Queen, befriended by Tyrion and on and on and on...but really they are opposites. (Light bulb goes on!)

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Sansa's cha

All right! With the understanding that there are two entirely different characters Sansa Book and Sansa HBO, then I willingly agree that the opposite rings true for the two very different creations. Both characters are the eldest daughter of Ned Stark, betrothed to Joffrey Baratheion, held hostage at KL, abused by the King, taunted by the Queen, befriended by Tyrion and on and on and on...but really they are opposites. (Light bulb goes on!)

Sansa's character if you didn't understand. She was diminished when compared to the book. And that's partly why the slight change from the book is useful here imo.

Edited by Fantôme

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I really thought that was a great touch with Bronn dropping a little vocabulary on Tyrion and showing his evolution as a character leading into how we all know how it goes down. Common sellsword, that was the old Bronn, brilliant and they pretty much pulled it with one line.

Edited by Arbor Gold I'm Sold

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You might want to read my posts again if you want to make a point.

Maybe you should read your posts again. She should condemn him because he is trying to manipulate her by helping her. Nothing worse than that. Yet she has no idea why he is trying to manipulate her, for example, to trade her for Jaime, a good thing, so she shouldn't have sympathy for him. Air tight.

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I did not interpret Sansa's comment in the way that it seems that most people here do. If anything, I thought it was plain that her words to him were genuine and that she said the rest about Joff to maintain her usual lies in KL. Joff is right there when she says it, but both she and Tyrion understand through the exchange that she will not pray for the King's safety. I think that their expressions in the scene really say it all. Sansa was being honest when she said she would pray for Tyrion.

I think that this shows in interesting shift in their relationship that happens much earlier in book 2. They both know that she is lying and they have a sort of understanding. The part I am thinking of is when he first arrives back at court and promises not to savage her, also when he makes the comment about her being as loyal as a deer surrounded by wolves and she corrects him and says lions. She is aware of his genuine kindness, the main problem that she has with him, which is very noticeable during their marriage is that he is and will always be a Lannister.

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Sansa's character if you didn't understand. She was diminished when compared to the book. And that's partly why the slight change from the book is useful here imo.

Slight change: She wants Tyrion dead instead of praying for him to live. Thanks for helping me to understand.

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I did not interpret Sansa's comment in the way that it seems that most people here do. If anything, I thought it was plain that her words to him were genuine and that she said the rest about Joff to maintain her usual lies in KL. Joff is right there when she says it, but both she and Tyrion understand through the exchange that she will not pray for the King's safety. I think that their expressions in the scene really say it all. Sansa was being honest when she said she would pray for Tyrion.

There you go. That makes sense if they were sharing the jibe. That's possible but subtle.

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Just watched it today - Tyrion rocks! What a speech to the men! Got me teary.

Loved the expression on Lancel's face throughout. Great actor, what comic relief!

Really loved Sansa in all her scenes tonight, and she's never been a favorite of mine in the books. Great acting/writing really showed her character growth, beginning of maturity. Thought the doll scene perfectly exemplified that.

The wildfire scene has got to be one of the best of all times - no words strong enough to give justice to its power and perfection. U n b e l i v a b l e! Even the battle scenes on land, and that's spoken by one who usually can't stand battle scenes!

The hound was beyond great in all his scenes EXCEPT we were really, really cheated in the San- San scene - my one criticism (but a major one).

So much more. Will have to come back later to finish.

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Yet she has no idea why he is trying to manipulate her, for example, to trade her for Jaime, a good thing, so she shouldn't have sympathy for him. Air tight.

Seriously? She should be thinking :" If my dear family's enemy trying to manipulate me , he might have a genuinely good reason for it!I should try to think about them and have some sympathy for the poor lad!" ?

That's just ridiculous.

.

Edited by Fantôme

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Interesting episode, the best one this season.No wonder since it was written by GRRM himself.

I did not agree with seeing Stannis as Achilles, first one off the boats, leading the men into battle without even an iron half helm on. It kinda makes him look like Robert.

When I first heard Bronn sing the Rains of Castamere with the men, I started singing with them. I was laughing like a mad man.

When, at the end of the episode, I heard the song again, it gave me goose bumps.

It was like the entire room was closing in on me, trying to crush me.

A great episode! Full of emotion!

One of the best episodes so far. Taking both seasons into consideration.

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That's just ridiculous.

.

What's ridiculous is to think that Sansa Book is so opposite to Sansa HBO that they would have the opposite reactions to the same situation. Look at BlueQueen's comment for something that makes sense. [sense alert]

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Guru Meditation is an error notice displayed by early versions of the Commodore Amiga computer when they crashed.

I had no idea that Amigas were still hosting websites.

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That. Was. Brilliant.

Seriously, if I could get George Martin to write all the episodes I would (although then we’d probably never get Winds of Winter). He left in as many of the best moments that the budget allowed- obviously no chain moment but that’s understandable- and any parts made up felt natural and right.

Props to all the actors too, who were all of them on top form. Lena Headley really stood out for me though, although Blackwater in the books really had my all-time favourite Cersei moments. That scene with Tommen was perfection.

Also on a side note, the music was brilliant as well. I think with the epicness of the battle, it was really allowed to shine but that was some brilliant work.

Season 2 has definitely has it’s ups and downs but that may be my favourite episode of both seasons so far.

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What's ridiculous is to think that Sansa Book is so opposite to Sansa HBO that they would have the opposite reactions to the same situation. Look at BlueQueen's comment for something that makes sense. [sense alert]

Funny hearing talk about sense from someone who argues that Sansa should imagine tyrion's reasons if he wanted to manipulate her and have sympathy for him. In her situation really. And your phrasing of my opinion is definetly not what I said so unless you start reading what's written I won't argue about it.

BlueQueen's comment is an interesting possibility.

Edited by Fantôme

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Can someone tell me what the hell the Bronn/The Hound scene amounted to? Pretty dull and pointless if you ask me. Yeah, they're both interesting characters, but their meeting just fell flat.

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Funny hearing talk about sense from someone who argues that Sansa should imagine tyrion's reasons if he wanted to manipulate her and have sympathy for him. In her situation really. And your phrasing of my opinion is definetly not what I said so unless you start reading what's written I won't argue about it.

BlueQueen's comment is an interesting possibility.

Ha

Funny hearing talk about sense from someone who argues that Sansa should imagine tyrion's reasons if he wanted to manipulate her and have sympathy for him. In her situation really. And your phrasing of my opinion is definetly not what I said so unless you start reading what's written I won't argue about it.

BlueQueen's comment is an interesting possibility.

Haha. I pointed out how you first said Sansa knew Tyrion was manipulating her and thus condemned him to death in battle, and you then said she couldn't know what he was thinking. That's called a self-contradiction. The other things attributed to me are your invention. Now, and this is the piece de resitance, you admit that BlueQueen's theory is an interesting possibility, again contradicting yourself. Why should I get involved in your self-argument?

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