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[Book Spoilers] EP 209 Discussion

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That line jarred me a bit. We know she prays for Joff to NOT return. So that implies she feels the same for Tyrion. Yet she and we know that Tyrion has saved her and taken her side when no one else did. It was clever writing but not entirely appropriate.

We know Sansa doesn't have any reason to hate Tyrion but in the books she refuses to trust him even when he's acting kind to her because she has learned never to trust a Lannister again. And whatever else he is, he's still a Lannister, and Lannisters have taken everything from her so I wouldn't call it inappropriate.

Edited by Fantôme

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It's a substitute for dragon fire, so ... makes ya wonder ,...?

If I remember correctly it is really, really expensive to make and very finicky to transport. I guess no captain would transport it on his ship and it is too sensitive and too easily set off to be transported by cart.

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TBH when I saw it first I didn't know it was Loras in Renly's armor.

Did they keep that bit for the show? If so, I'm impressed. I never got a good look at Loras' armor before he took off his helm.

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I loved how Tyrion and Bronn looked at the wildfire-nuke they set off. First, they looked with surprise that it worked, then they looked away because it was too bright, and then they looked in amazement and horror.

I loved how everyone kind of close their eyes in the moment of the explosion except for the old alchemist (forgot his name). His eyes are wide open in amusement like "I did this".

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I loved how everyone kind of close their eyes in the moment of the explosion except for the old alchemist (forgot his name). His eyes are wide open in amusement like "I did this".

If I remember correctly Joffrey showed a little bit of "I like this" too. I remember thinking how sadistic he was especially in that scene. Because contrasted with Tyrion, who visibly was disturbed with the results, Joffrey's expression stood out.

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We know Sansa doesn't have any reason to hate Tyrion but in the books she refuses to trust him even when he's acting kind to her because she has learned never to trust a Lannister again. And whatever else he is, he's still a Lannister, and Lannisters have taken everything from her so I wouldn't call it inappropriate.

If she hasn't learned to distinguish between someone hurting her and someone helping her what exactually is she learning or is she incapable?

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If she hasn't learned to distinguish between someone hurting her and someone helping her what exactually is she learning or is she incapable?

We know Tyrion's kindness is genuine because we have his POV. Sansa doesn't.He could very well just pretend to be nice to her just like Cersei did. It's only normal to take a minimum amount of risks by trusting almost nobody when you're in the enemy's nest.

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No one had a problem with it when Robert or Robb did it. Or Victarion. Sansa even comments on it, and the importance of a King fighting alongside his men is stressed many times by Tyrion on the matter of Joffrey to 'prepare' us for this scene, so to speak. It was brilliantly set up really, and I loved the juxtapose between Joffrey's sniveling and Stannis' badassery. Jaime, too, leads from the front. In this case, it was GRRM cleverly showing Stannis' pragmatism in combat. They've just taken a huge hit, their field commander appears to have died, his men were showing doubt... So Stannis decides to lead the charge (also surrounded by his own men, he was in front but it's not like he was way ahead of them), much in the same way Tyrion decided to lead his men to inspire them. It also has something to do with how the battle was adapted: here the attack came directly from the sea, in the books the army was split in two parts by the river they had to cross to attack the wall and they had great difficulties in getting across. It makes more sense for him to lead here where Stannis is able to land himself and a large portion of his army relatively securely and there is not an army still behind him that needs directions.

I'm not talking about fighting at the front. I'm talking about being the first. The King would be dead if he was the first, running towards the walls without even a shield. Robert was probably the only one, and that was Robert. He was the guy that didn't care if he lived or died in the battle, because the battle was what he lived for. He was a warrior first.

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We know Tyrion's kindness is genuine because we have his POV. Sansa doesn't.He could very well just pretend to be nice to her just like Cersei did. It's only normal to take a minimum amount of risks by trusting almost nobody when you're in the enemy's nest.

No one on the show or in real life knows what is in another's mind. All we can go on is their acts. What conceivable advantage can it be for Tyrion to show Sansa kindness when she is already trapped at KL? Much easier for him to go along with Joff's sadism. If Sansa has no reasoning ability, just say so, and leave it at that.

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Hey guys, first time poster here.

I just was so blown away by the last episode. Unreal television.

I really don't even know where to begin.

I haven't read the books yet, I sort of got into game of Thrones late and I watched the entire first season about a month ago in a few days and now I am watching them episode to episode.

However there is no way I am going to wait around for episodes after the season 2 finale so I will be reading the books after episode 10.

Where a bouts does it leave off? I read that season 3 will start somewhere in the middle of the 3rd book.

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Where a bouts does it leave off? I read that season 3 will start somewhere in the middle of the 3rd book.

It looks like season 2 ends about where book 2 ends. I did the same as you after season 1. Its a different dynamic watching subsequent seasons having read the books. I think its worth it, but I will never know.

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No one on the show or in real life knows what is in another's mind. All we can go on is their acts. What conceivable advantage can it be for Tyrion to show Sansa kindness when she is already trapped at KL? Much easier for him to go along with Joff's sadism. If Sansa has no reasoning ability, just say so, and leave it at that.

No I don't think so. I'm not a fan of Sansa but I do think she gained some strength and brains after Games. Conceivable advantage would be her trust, which would be useful should he want to manipulate her for some reason (worked with Cersei in Games). Littlefinger, for example, could do something like that , don't you think? From Sansa's point of view, why should Tyrion be any better than all the manipulative bastards in King's Landing? It's a shame that she doesn't trust him from our point of view, but it's the safer thing to do.

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Conceivable advantage would be her trust, which would be useful should he want to manipulate her for some reason (worked with Cersei in Games).

The lines in the series show that Sansa puts Tyrion in the same boat as Joffrey. That is just wrong. Joff is not trying to manipulate her. He is trying to hurt her. If she believes Tyrion has some alternative motive for helping her, thats ok. He is still helping her. Its time for some shades of grey if she is to become something more than a naive (dumb) kid.

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Last week I defended D&D and said they would somehow write in Tyrions chain because it was important to his character line. I was wrong. This episode didn't need it.

Everything was superb. Everything. We get a nice look into the mind of Cersei and just how neurotic she is. We get to see sweet Tommen. Sansa with the doll Ned gave her (that she hated at the time) and the human side of the hound.

Jack Gleeson continues to make me despise Joffrey and FINALLY I fell in love with Dilane as Stannis.

I even liked Shae. Although I'm wondering more and more if she's taking the place of Dontos?

Only mild complaint is that I couldn't understand a word of The National at the end :(

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According to translation we got, Cercei said 4 (I hope they have text and not translate on hearing, since it is official HBO).

I have read books while watching 1st season and like them both. I like complete 2nd season also, but this episode was amazing.

Like someone have said, maybe they should concentrate on less character per episode and not try to show all at once.

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The lines in the series show that Sansa puts Tyrion in the same boat as Joffrey. That is just wrong. Joff is not trying to manipulate her. He is trying to hurt her. If she believes Tyrion has some alternative motive for helping her, thats ok. He is still helping her. Its time for some shades of grey if she is to become something more than a naive (dumb) kid.

But this is not a naive reaction. The line doesn't mean she hates him as much as she hates Joffrey. But she certainly won't pray for his safe return.You do that realise that ,kind or not, he's still her family's enemy ? Robb's enemy should the North's forces arrive at King's Landing gate. Is it surprising that she would wish for his death then? Tyrion' loyalty goes to the Lannisters, to Joffrey , even if he hates him. Blindly trusting someone who has helped her once, that would be a naive and dumb reaction.

Edited by Fantôme

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Blindly trusting someone who has helped her once, that would be a naive and dumb reaction.

"Blindly trusting"? Is that the alternative to wishing the same fate on Tyrion as on Joffrey? They are not even fighitng the Starks. They are fighting Stannis who according to Cersei will kill Sansa as he kills the Lannisters. That is not so far-fetched as Stannis considers the Starks traitors. Look what Stannis does to traitors such as his younger brother.

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