[Book Spoiler] The Reeds

[Frumpus]

My guess is that they want to write Bran and Rickon out as soon as possible because the actors will get too old, so they plan on getting Bran to the north with Hodor, Osha, and Rickon will either be with them or get killed off.

Is the Rickon/Osha/Davos storyline even going to be important in the sixth book? I have a feeling it'll be like another Theon storyline. Great and emotional read, but ultimately unimportant to the overall storyline.

[ShadowRaven]

The Reeds are definitely an important element, and I'm baffled they actually cut them for this season.

They are ignoring a lot of Bran's storyline, like the Walders and Ramsay. Right around this part Ramsay should be somewhere in the dungeons.

It's like they're cutting a lot of important cast members of Bran/Dany storyline and not for the rest. Really unfair!

[Onion Smuggler]

Gutted they cut the Reeds, (unless they introduce them S3) and Ramsey/ Reek.

I love Jojen and his green dreams. I don't know how they can justify characters like Ros and cut the Reeds!

[WinterWarrior]

In Sunday's episode (Ghost of Harrenhall) it was Bran who had the dream of the sea coming over the walls of Winterfell, which in the book is a dream that Jojen had. So I think they may have Bran being the green seer earlier in the story and someone else taking him up North of the Wall. I think the Reeds will either show up in Season 3, maybe just Meera, or not at all.

As far as Rickon goes, I think he will be VERY important in the next two books and will be the only Stark at Winterfell by the time GRRM gets that last book out (hoping he lives long enough to finish the books....). The story line of Davos being sent by Lord Too Fat to Sit a Horse to find Rickon seems to me to be the next big movement in the Stark story.

And Sophie Turner is an excellent Sansa - she is perfect for the part. But that has nothing to do with this thread. And yes, wasting time on Ros is unthinkable. I hope the writers are listening before they write Season 3.

[catstory]

I will go ahead and say what everyone else already knows, but is afraid to say out loud.

The TV series can basically do anything it wants, independent of the books, because the books wont be finished for at least 10 more years.

That means that this TV show can go anywhere it wants, and end however they want to end it, because the books wont be finished in time for the TV show to be able to follow cannon.

Sorry for the buzz-kill... Now let's all try to put that in the back of our minds for now, and enjoy it while it lasts.

Ha! This is so true, and then we will have the reversal of roles, where the TV watchers know more (about the future) than the book readers.

Will anyone stop watching so you can get the full ending of the series in the books? I don't think I could stop watching, but I'd rather read the books without knowing what will happen. This might be a real problem for the producers (or not?).

[catstory]

Does anyone know if the list ALL of the character that have been cast. Is it possible that the Reeds will appear right before Theon and help Bran escape?

[White Harbors Wrath]

There is no reason to have the Reeds included.

There is not enough time to fit much more interesting plot devices into the TV show so there's no reason to believe they're going to spend loads of time having Bran wander around the North needing companionship. Look how truncated Arya's journey to Harrenhal became.

Bran and Rickon flee with Osha and Hodor for season 3, Osha doesn't end up wanting to go north of the Wall again so she drops Bran off with Coldhands and splits with Rickon.

No Reed is ever needed. Unless they're almost entirely omitting Feast for Crows and anything to do with the Martells in Kings landing, they're not going to have oodles of time to waste on kids in a forest dreaming they're a wolf. Does it work great in the book? Yes, of course it does...that's why we read books...for minutia and details and vivid imaginable events not realizable in movies and TV.

As cramped as they're going to be for time once the snowball starts picking up all the extra houses, cutting these two characters is probably one of the better changes.

[Lord Barristan]

I hate when people say so and so isn't important or so and so has nothing to do with the overall storyline (like theon in dance for example).

Martin himself has said there is no main character nor is there a main storyline. The song of ice and fire is all of these people woven together... The reeds are important not just because of the info they give him on the past... But they have a Reason to be brans companions and the are closer to being his contemporaries... And of course Howland Reed is going to show up. In Portugal last week GRRM said he hadn't decided if Howland will appear in book 6 or 7 but he will definitely appear

It's like the people who say reek isn't important... All he did was fake bran and rickons death, burn winterfell, capture theon, kill ser Roderick and Cerwyn, kill Maester luwin... But yea he's not important and they should give his role to someone else... It completely changes the dynamic of the story to have some random iron born do all of those things

I understand that not everything can fit into the show... But they shouldn't be dismissed as unimportant. I can understand the reeds being cut- I'm not really a big fan of theirs- but cutting ramsay from this season really pisses me off tbh

[TyrionFan82]

I wasn't disappointed when Bran mentioned his dream and I thought wait Jojen says that and thinking oh no Reeds :(. It is an odd choice since the Reeds are so big. Although I can accept Osha I guess despite the massive change since NT is doing a good job w/her, it's just a pretty big change I wish hadn't been done.

[A Damp Crannogman]

This might sound crazy...but it's my first post so hear me out. Did anyone think that in the last camera shot in the scene where Bran sent two orphan boys off with the farmer the camera spent a slightly suspicious amount of time on a hooded figure at the back of the hall? Meera Reed or Ramsay Snow... or my imagination/hope as I was expecting the Reeds to appear?

[Davos55]

This might sound crazy...but it's my first post so hear me out. Did anyone think that in the last camera shot in the scene where Bran sent two orphan boys off with the farmer the camera spent a slightly suspicious amount of time on a hooded figure at the back of the hall? Meera Reed or Ramsay Snow... or my imagination/hope as I was expecting the Reeds to appear?

It could have been Ramsay! That would be excellent.

I will have to rewatch that scene, I don't really recall any hooded figure.

Welcome to the boards!

[kevinbgwrites]

I feel like I'm the only one who's glad they were cut. They always bored me in otherwise exciting books. They would make for terrible television. I mean ,look how rushed and askew the Stannis storyline has been. Who needs two kids that aren't needed to begin with?

Osha going north makes sense to begin with and will make much better television. Honestly anywhere they can reasonably trim the fat from the series the better, especially if they are in this for the long haul. Hell with someone competent like osha, they could probably eliminate coldhands. even.

The fact people even want the reeds in baffles me.

[Ser Pink of Floyd]

Big mistake in missing the Reeds and even the 2 Frey boys, they can still be written in, so its not too late but if we dont see them before Theon comes to WF then its questionable if/when we see them.

[Ser Giant]

What would get Osha to go back North? As far as I can remember she would rather die than go back to where she fled from.

Osha going back North makes no sense to me at all.

[kevinbgwrites]

I could see her inferring that Bran might be able to stop the white walkers, and thus be willing to risk it. Something like that is better than needing reeds and the nightmares that scenes with her and Rickon would be.

[Lord Barristan]

OSHA going north makes sense? Why would she go back beyond the wall if she was running from there to begin with?

You talk about "cutting the fat" yet they are spending time on Ros and inventing some talisa from volantis with Robb- who is going to die next season anyway? And you talk about cutting the fat? Robb was ment to die from the beginning that's why GRRM never gave him a POV. Ned had one because he had much important info to give us... Giving Robb a POV but skipping out on reek is one of the dumbest decisions the series made... And yes I know giving Robb more time will make the red wedding worse, but I care more about reek/Ramsay. I just can't understand anyone who backs David and Dan in this decision to cut the guy who basically finished the Starks (in the minds of many) and led for the red wedding

Eliminating cold hands would be awful. I want to see the elk

[Davos55]

Osha going north makes sense to begin with and will make much better television. Honestly anywhere they can reasonably trim the fat from the series the better, especially if they are in this for the long haul. Hell with someone competent like osha, they could probably eliminate coldhands. even.

Don't get ahead of yourself man. Eliminating Coldhands would be very sad and a little ridiculous. Do you think Osha will magically know where to reach Bloodraven? I also don't buy into the fact that Osha going with him is much better television. Trimming the fat does make sense for the show to some extent, but the producers have to be smart about where they cut things.

[kevinbgwrites]

Reek is totally different than reeds. Reek is actually significant and I'm worried about. Note I didn't compliment them spending time on Ros, but at least she is used to support existing characters for the most part, which while isn't great, doesn't leave viewers more confused.

Viewers need to care about Robb, and understand what he's doing, so his love arc, which I don't think they will spend that much time on makes sense. Not giving Robb a POV would be a disaster.

Coldhands is cool and all, but I don't recall him doing anything that Osha and co couldn't manage with a little re-writing. They could have Bran dream of where BR is or some silliness. Too many fantastical elements like undead could turn viewers off. Note this is an adaption and too many characters doesn't translate well, as we see with Ros scenes taking away from important guys like Stannis. Hence my point that the reeds would be too fatty to people who haven't read the books.

[Davos55]

Coldhands is cool and all, but I don't recall him doing anything that Osha and co couldn't manage with a little re-writing. They could have Bran dream of where BR is or some silliness. Too many fantastical elements like undead could turn viewers off. Note this is an adaption and too many characters doesn't translate well, as we see with Ros scenes taking away from important guys like Stannis. Hence my point that the reeds would be too fatty to people who haven't read the books.

What about Coldhands saving Sam and Gilly from the Wights beyond the Wall? Then leading Sam to the secret passageway, allowing him to lead Bran and company north of the wall unnoticed. Also him fighting the wights and giving Bran information, and leading them to the cave?

If they were concerned with the undead or the fantastical turning people off, I don't think they would even have the WIghts at all, or the Whitewalkers. So I don't understand your point with that.

I also don't understand your sentence about Stannis, Ros, and too many characters. What does Ros have to do with there being too many characters that don't translate well, and how does that relate to Stannis?

Finally, I don't think one or both of the Reeds would really be that hard for tv viewers to keep track of. They would always be with Bran, and they would have important conversations, and could become potential fan favorite type characters.

I don't think the producers have to go crazy cutting stuff just because they feel that tv viewers won't be able to follow things. Viewers that watch a premium show on HBO like this are older, and can generally follow storylines and characters very well. Did The Sopranos or The Wire worry about things like that? I doubt it.

[kevinbgwrites]

Point with Ros is- She's invented and isn't a great addition. Is she particularly problematic? No, but her scenes take away from scenes such as Stannis' red bird scene, a scene explaining why Stannis is even south with Renly etc. and as such his character has suffered. Given that they've added Ros, there is definitely no place for two more characters that can be comfortably cut, because then Stannis/other characters would suffer even more.

The wights were foreshadowed. Coldhands and many other non WW resurrections are not, and coupled with stuff like house of the undying and coldhands might prove to be too much. My point wasn't that I want him to be cut, but I could see how they could use Osha and Bran's dreams to cut him if they deemed it needed.