Revealing of Jon Snow's mother

[sumant30]

It makes sense that Rhaegar approached Lyanna after Elia is pronounced unfit for further pregnancies.

With what he would approach her that he wants her to have his babies, and you are forgetting something she is stark and with starks their honor is most important thing for them even though it ends up killing them so this theory of Lyanna eloping with Rhaegar itself seems far fetched.

Ashara does not want to raise a bastard boy, who really deserves a chance to inherit.

This is pure speculation, because we don't know what kind of girl Ashara was you just can't base a theory on she does not want to raise a bastard boy, what if the bastard was of Ned ?, who according to Edric Dayne really loved Ashara.

There may be other posters out there who could poke holes in this theory but, to me, it fits with everything we know and doesn't violate the text in any way.

Actually it does violate the text because nobody is giving any significance to what was said by Edric Dayne instead of making theories from pure speculation that Ashara was raped by Aerys and Arthur Dayne would have definitely done something about it.

[Meddler]

With what he would approach her that he wants her to have his babies, and you are forgetting something she is stark and with starks their honor is most important thing for them even though it ends up killing them so this theory of Lyanna eloping with Rhaegar itself seems far fetched.

This isn't really true. Not that the Starks didn't hold their honor in high regard, but you're taking Ned's disposition and making a general claim about Starks that's not indicated at all. Brandon certainly wasn't a stoic, honor-first type the way Ned was, in fact he was quite wild and and impulsive. In fact I'm pretty sure GRRM said it was plausible or even likely that Brandon had some little bastards running around before he was betrothed to Catelyn. And while Lyanna and Benjen don't seem to have been as wild as Brandon, they were also probably wilder than Ned. Arya has been likened to Lyanna numerous times, and while she's far from without honor, she is certainly impulsive. It's not hard to picture a 14 or 15 year old Arya eloping with a proud warrior who fell for her because of her prowess with a lance.

There have also been past Starks we've only heard about in passing, such as King Benjen the Bitter and King Brandon the Bad, who certainly earned their titles one way or another. And, of course, some believe a Stark may have in fact been the Night's King.

[Meddler]

Actually it does violate the text because nobody is giving any significance to what was said by Edric Dayne instead of making theories from pure speculation that Ashara was raped by Aerys and Arthur Dayne would have definitely done something about it.

It still doesn't violate the text. Just because Edric said Ned loved Ashara, even if it were true, why does that make it implausible that Aerys raped her? Maybe she turned to Ned for help, or for a shoulder to cry on after she was raped. Quite plausible if her brother (Arthur) was off hunting the KotL with Rhaegar.

[Belandra Waters]

It still doesn't violate the text. Just because Edric said Ned loved Ashara, even if it were true, why does that make it implausible that Aerys raped her? Maybe she turned to Ned for help, or for a shoulder to cry on after she was raped. Quite plausible if her brother (Arthur) was off hunting the KotL with Rhaegar.

And Barristan wonders to himself if he had made his feelings know to Ashara, she may have turned to him instead of Stark. It makes sense from the context, that she did that for comfort or help.

[sumant30]

It still doesn't violate the text. Just because Edric said Ned loved Ashara, even if it were true, why does that make it implausible that Aerys raped her? Maybe she turned to Ned for help, or for a shoulder to cry on after she was raped. Quite plausible if her brother (Arthur) was off hunting the KotL with Rhaegar.

This is quite contradictory what you are speaking about because she will turn to a man whom she danced with, and theoretically speaking was in no power to help her instead of going to her brother who was one of the finest knights in kingsguard.

[The Unburnt Hound]

Howland Reed or more likely Bran

[Meddler]

This is quite contradictory what you are speaking about because she will turn to a man whom she danced with, and theoretically speaking was in no power to help her instead of going to her brother who was one of the finest knights in kingsguard.

Again, not if Arthur Dayne went with Rhaegar to track down the KotL, which would make sense. Rhaegar would not have been dispatched alone, and who better to accompany him than a one of his best friends who was also a Knight of the Kingsguard? Who would Ashara turn to then if Arthur was not there? Perhaps the gentle and honorable man, a son of one of the most powerful Lords in all of Westeros, with a strong retinue, who was to shy to ask for her hand for a dance?

[sumant30]

Again, not if Arthur Dayne went with Rhaegar to track down the KotL, which would make sense. Rhaegar would not have been dispatched alone, and who better to accompany him than a one of his best friends who was also a Knight of the Kingsguard? Who would Ashara turn to then if Arthur was not there? Perhaps the gentle and honorable man, a son of one of the most powerful Lords in all of Westeros, with a strong retinue, who was to shy to ask for her hand for a dance?

But it was not like Arthur would have never returned from his mission, also other point it is highly unlikely that Ashara would come to harrenhall accompanied only by her brother she would definitely had some guard from starfall as it was basically a tourney and all great lords were expected to be there.

[Belandra Waters]

But it was not like Arthur would have never returned from his mission, also other point it is highly unlikely that Ashara would come to harrenhall accompanied only by her brother she would definitely had some guard from starfall as it was basically a tourney and all great lords were expected to be there.

Assuming for the moment that Ashara was raped by King Aerys and she does tell Arthur...what do you think would happen then, remembering that Arthur is a sworn member of the Kingsguard?

[sumant30]

Assuming for the moment that Ashara was raped by King Aerys and she does tell Arthur...what do you think would happen then, remembering that Arthur is a sworn member of the Kingsguard?

I think Arthur Dayne would definitely have done something,because kingsguard or not how can someone stand getting their sister raped and do nothing about it, also as i have mentioned previously it is highly unlikely that Ashara traveled with her brother alone she would definitely have an escort with her.My guess is that Arthur Dayne would have did what Jamie Lannister did and the war would have been avoided :P

[MtnLion]

I think Arthur Dayne would definitely have done something,because kingsguard or not how can someone stand getting their sister raped and do nothing about it, also as i have mentioned previously it is highly unlikely that Ashara traveled with her brother alone she would definitely have an escort with her.My guess is that Arthur Dayne would have did what Jamie Lannister did and the war would have been avoided :P

Ser Arthur Dayne has a vow where he dies at the Tower of Joy defending Jon who is two weeks old, at most. Barristan has a vow that prevents him from naming the man who dishonored Ashara, even in his own thoughts. Ashara was travelling in the company of Elia who is well guarded. Elia and Ashara are close, it is known. I don't put Ser Arthur in the same company as the kingslayer for obvious reasons.

[Jem]

My guess would be that Ashara turned to Ned precisely because he wouldn't do anything. If she told her brother or Brandon Stark it is likely that they would confront Aerys and get themselves killed. Ashara would know that there is no justice for a woman who is raped by a king - especially a mad king. There is nothing that anyone could do for her except comfort her, which is why she turned to (Ned) Stark.

[Drought of Castamere]

I like the idea that Ashara turned to Ned Stark for comfort, because she had been dishonored by the Mad King. To further some of the other ideas in this thread, the theory of a baby switch is at least somewhat plausible if you buy into the 'raped by the king' theory. Ashara believed she was sending her son off to be the King of the Seven Kingdoms, but she actually ended up sending him off to his death. Perhaps that's why she killed herself; the guilt at the thought of sending her baby off to die was too much for her to bare.

[sumant30]

My guess would be that Ashara turned to Ned precisely because he wouldn't do anything

I don't think so because during the the time when Robb and Catelyn are riding to the twins she reminisces that,Robb was wise in not bringing Jeyne because he was too much of his father's son to bear any japes against his lady love by Walder Frey.

So the the theory of Ashara going to Ned so that he wouldn't do anything is definitely not plausible.

Ashara believed she was sending her son off to be the King of the Seven Kingdoms, but she actually ended up sending him off to his death. Perhaps that's why she killed herself

Then where is baby Aegon in that case ?