Revealing of Jon Snow's mother

[Miriamele]

But isn't that too much Star Wars?

Only if the other twin is Dany. Come to think of it.... :drunk:

[dreamcatcher]

But isn't that too much Star Wars?

I haven't watched that, so I don't know..

[Visual909]

Only if the other twin is Dany. Come to think of it.... :drunk:

well if it is than it's the Targs we're talking about so it'll get past first base lol.

[BoldAsYouPlease]

Sun probably made a mistake. (although deep down, at the rate we're going, I think there will be 8 books)

Given the leisurely story pacing of AFfC and ADwD, I have to agree. Only way to wrap this up in two books would be to either floor the gas pedal and load nearly every chapter with revelation and climax, or simply leave many of the threads in the story unanswered and unfinished.

However, I'm 99% certain that (one of the) cliff-hangers at the end of TWoW will concern Jon Snow's parentage. And as we can see, GRRM hasn't really decided if he wants a cliff-hanger or not - ergo, he hasn't decided if he wants H. Reed in the 6th book or in the 7th.

Since Jon Snow's origin is perhaps the biggest mystery in the story, I have to believe we're not going to find out (or see Howland Reed) until the last book, whether it be 7 or 8.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Given the leisurely story pacing of Feast and Dance, I have to agree. Only way to wrap this up in two books would be to either floor the gas pedal and load nearly every chapter with revelation and climax, or simply leave many of the threads in the story unanswered and unfinished.

I would like for you to be wrong, but I don’t think you are. On the other hand, Storm is pretty dense, so we know he can do better than this.

Well, or that he once could. I’m not certain this is still possible. There are any number (read: many) stylistic foibles in Feast, and many more in Dance, exceedingly annoying things that he never did in earlier books.

It’s hard to know why these are happening. It could be because he’s too rushed. It could be because he hasn’t had an active copyeditor, and once did. Or it could be because he has lost a knack, or developed a handicap.

I have concrete data on these things, but they’re all things that others have long commented upon, especially with Dance. The book would be a lot better without all these anomalies and idiosyncrasies. I begin to fear that his strength is fading. I hope I’m wrong.

[JonBran]

The dragon must have three heads.. Dany, Aegon.. and Jon?

[CindySnow]

The dragon must have three heads.. Dany, Aegon.. and Jon?

I am agreeing with that.

[kg1982]

The dragon must have three heads.. Dany, Aegon.. and Jon?

Aegon gets eaten by Dany's dragon in the sixth or seventh book -- Tyrion is the third head.

[Toft]

"Sweet sadness filled the room as man and wife and babe faded like the morning mist, only the music lingering behind to speed her on her way."

The three of them died, and all that was left to guide Dany was their melancholy legacy, the Song of Ice and Fire.

I am not too concerned about who Jon Snow's mother is. I know, however, that the revelation will be as beautiful as any a moment of the series.

[Silent_Hero]

"Sweet sadness filled the room as man and wife and babe faded like the morning mist, only the music lingering behind to speed her on her way."

The three of them died, and all that was left to guide Dany was their melancholy legacy, the Song of Ice and Fire.

I am not too concerned about who Jon Snow's mother is. I know, however, that the revelation will be as beautiful as any a moment of the series.

[escargotini]

Hodor is the third head. Hodor Targaryen.

[Sasha Steelsong]

There are really three reveals here and I'm almost certain they will not happen at the same time.

1) Reveal to the readers that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's trueborn son.

2) Reveal to Jon that he is Rhaegar and Lyanna's trueborn son.

3) Reveal to Westeros that he is Rhaegar and Lyanna's trueborn son.

Bran/Howland Reed/Wylla/Bloodraven all certainly know the truth or in Bran's case will soon. Of those people Howland Reed is the only one who might have proof that the outside world will believe (i.e. something he's been holding on to or something that he knows is hidden somewhere just in case Jon revealing himself became necessary) so I think he'll come into play at some point even if just to confirm what Jon suspects and make the announcement public.

Dany is a bit of a wild card since prophetic visions seem to find her. So I could see her learning that she does have family still in Westeros aside from the boy calling himself Aegon (so want him to be the real deal....so doubt that he actually is) in some sort of vision/House of the Undying experience and thus not only informing her of a reason to get her butt to Westeros but taking care of reveal #1 by telling the audience of the truth before any of the Westerosi-based character's know or even suspect.

I don't think Jon will be the last to know but I'm more than willing to bet that the first time he's told (unless it is litterally spelled out for him and someone says outright "you're not Ned Stark's son. You're the trueborn son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark") he won't totally get/believe it and will then go looking for answers. So I suspect it will go something like this...in a dream/coma he gets information from Bran that almost manages to get the truth across (one of those times when the readers get it but Jon doesn't cause he thinks Bran is dead, doesn't think Ned would lie, isn't really comfortable with his powers so he doesn't trust them, etc..) and when he wakes up he'll have a ton of questions and go searching for answers which will hopefully lead him to Howland Reed and some more concrete proof than anything he might get via Bran and the weirwood network.

[Harlaw's Book]

atpthornton, I agree with a lot your post. The reveals could anyone's chapter including the prologue and epilogue POVs. How it's revealed will determine the POV its revealed in. I have a few rough categories that aren't perfect, and some POVs could belong in more than one category.

The reveal is done using the supernatural or the reveal is done at a place associated with the supernatural or supernatural practitioners ie the Citadel, House of Black & White, Skagos

Bran, Dany, Arya, Davos, Sam, Melissandre, Theon, Victarion, Aeron

The reveal happens because a character who has most of the backstory finally puts it all together or receives that all important final clue

Jaime, Jon Connington, Barristan, Cersei,

Characters who may be around the character who gets the reveal or chooses to reveal

Areo, Arianne, Asha, Brienne

Characters who tend to have things revealed to them

Sansa, Tyrion --& Tyrion's a strong case because he will probably around characters like Dany and Barristan, and he tends to figure things out like YG's identity and who sent the guy to kill Bran.

[Gogossos]

Dany is a bit of a wild card since prophetic visions seem to find her. So I could see her learning that she does have family still in Westeros aside from the boy calling himself Aegon (so want him to be the real deal....so doubt that he actually is) in some sort of vision/House of the Undying experience and thus not only informing her of a reason to get her butt to Westeros but taking care of reveal #1 by telling the audience of the truth before any of the Westerosi-based character's know or even suspect.

I'm inclined to believe this. Bran can learn the truth through his powers or Benjen but then it either won't be mysterious enough or Bran would be too young to figure it out. Similarly, Howland can reveal it Stannis or Jamie or even Jon himself but I don't think he can convince anybody, he's best used to corroborate someone's suspicions. I think Dany hasn't paid enough attention to her prophesies, except for he betrayals part, but if she did she might start piecing together the truth. Barristan can confirm some Lyanna stories, which would lead her north and a certain bastard with a rising reputation will catch her attention. Then the deal will be sealed by the dragons' behaviour towards him. She'll plant the idea in his head and he will look for Reed for confirmation.

[Lyanna Mormont]

I'm desperately hoping that he turns out to be Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, because it's a beautiful theory.

However...

I know the TV series is turning out slightly different from the books, but it does have GRRM as an executive producer, and so far there has been no mention of Lyanna bar the bit in the first episode where Robert visits her grave. No fever dreams from Ned, which is where most of the theory comes from. I'm kinda thinking that GRRM is showing HBO what they can leave in and out, and if he's cut Ned's dreams then I'm wondering if maybe R+L=J isn't actually true.

There's precedent in the Harry Potter film series, the studio was going to cut Dobby but JK Rowling stopped them because she knew he was important later on.

[kg1982]

Actually it's a theory on some of the unsullied spec boards already, so I doubt it. There's enough to go on from the first two episodes to suggest that Jon's mom isn't Wylla, a camp follower. Such as the fact that Ned is obviously lying his butt off to Robert.

The fever dreams would probably give away the whole darn secret before even the books do.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

I'm desperately hoping that he turns out to be Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, because it's a beautiful theory.

However...

I know the TV series is turning out slightly different from the books, but it does have GRRM as an executive producer, and so far there has been no mention of Lyanna bar the bit in the first episode where Robert visits her grave. No fever dreams from Ned, which is where most of the theory comes from. I'm kinda thinking that GRRM is showing HBO what they can leave in and out, and if he's cut Ned's dreams then I'm wondering if maybe R+L=J isn't actually true.

There's precedent in the Harry Potter film series, the studio was going to cut Dobby but JK Rowling stopped them because she knew he was important later on.

there will probably be hints in the house of the undying, almost all the hints are monologue, difficult to do for a tv show

[dreamcatcher]

I'm desperately hoping that he turns out to be Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, because it's a beautiful theory.

However...

I know the TV series is turning out slightly different from the books, but it does have GRRM as an executive producer, and so far there has been no mention of Lyanna bar the bit in the first episode where Robert visits her grave. No fever dreams from Ned, which is where most of the theory comes from. I'm kinda thinking that GRRM is showing HBO what they can leave in and out, and if he's cut Ned's dreams then I'm wondering if maybe R+L=J isn't actually true.

There's precedent in the Harry Potter film series, the studio was going to cut Dobby but JK Rowling stopped them because she knew he was important later on.

They're leaving it out because they know we all know and would say, "AHA!" at the slightest mention of "blue flower" or "promise me, Ned.." or shot of Rhaegar screaming a woman's name...

There's plenty of time to put hints in it for non-readers, though.

I still wonder what they'll include in Dany's vision.

[Miriamele]

I'm desperately hoping that he turns out to be Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, because it's a beautiful theory.

However...

I know the TV series is turning out slightly different from the books, but it does have GRRM as an executive producer, and so far there has been no mention of Lyanna bar the bit in the first episode where Robert visits her grave. No fever dreams from Ned, which is where most of the theory comes from. I'm kinda thinking that GRRM is showing HBO what they can leave in and out, and if he's cut Ned's dreams then I'm wondering if maybe R+L=J isn't actually true.

There's precedent in the Harry Potter film series, the studio was going to cut Dobby but JK Rowling stopped them because she knew he was important later on.

They killed of one of the Dothraki (can't remember his name), even though GRRM told them, he will have a bigger role later.

Plus it's a giveaway.

[Lyanna Mormont]

Hmm, okay. I shall keep hoping :)

Yeah I wasn't expecting Rakharo to die, I was rather upset about that!