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A Thread for Small Questions XVII


Angalin

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Do any of you All-Knowing-People-of-The-Forum ( :bowdown: that was my silly attempt on humor) know a theory or at least can direct me to a thread discussing the plural on (off?) the walls on the Night's Watch vows? I already searched and while I found a lot of threads discussing all things wall related, none seem to investigate this specific question and since I reckon I know nothing, I thought of just come here and ask for help.

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.

And Sam, at the Nightfort:

I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers. I am the shield that guards the realms of men.
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what is the difference between the 3 dragon's riders and the dragon has 3 heads? I am getting confused some people seem to think they are the same. are they? Thanks in advance.

It´s a fan speculation based on two simple facts:

1) In Dany´s vision in House of Undying, Rhaegar tells to Elia (holding baby Aegon) that there must be third because the dragon has to have three heads. It indicates he needs third child. Rhaegar seems to think he needs three children, probably to fulfill a prophecy.

2) Dany "births" three dragons. Every dragon can have only one rider. Three dragons means three dragonriders which could possibly mean three heads of dragon.

It appears to be pretty straightforward, but it´s in fact far more problematic than this.

We don´t know where Rhaegar got his information. Was it from the ancient book of prophetic visions by Aenar, or was it simply because of the Targaryen sigile (which is probably based on Aegon I, Visenya and Rhaenys - one dragon with three heads = three dragonriders - it could have given him an idea)? If he was acting on some prophecy - which prophecy it was? The Dragon/Prince who Was Promised which is tied with the Targaryen dynasty? Maybe he thought that his children would be three heads of the Dragon who Was Promised? It could be, all his children would come from Aerys and Rhaella´s line. Now, we know that he was at least partly wrong - Rhaenys is 100% dead - but it still could be Dany, Jon (if R+L=J) and Aegon (if he´s real) . . . which seems shaky, mainly because of Aegon. What Rhaegar thought on subjects of actual dragons, we don´t know. We don´t know what the Prince is meant to do either, only that the Targaryens wished for him. Maybe the Prince is meant to do the same thing as Azor Ahai, but again, we´re not sure. Azor Ahai is meant to fight "darkness". We´re not even sure what sort of darkness - the Others up there in the North (as Melisandre thinks), or slavery, death and night as the other Red Priests preach? It´s a mess.

I´ve seen suggested (the authorship is not mine) that the three heads could mean three crowns or three "faces" of one person. Ugh, as much as I dislike that overly repeated line, we truly know nothing. GRRM is trolling us.

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@ Sofia, I've never thought about that before. You would think it would say "wall" not "walls" but maybe it was just a prose thing, it sounds better walls.... I have no idea what other walls it could be referring to.

I don't know, GreenDream... When I read it for the first time, it stroke me as odd, but I thought that it was a language thing also. And then, reading some other thread here, someone wrote "the Wall" and I though that this is really how it is known... With the on front...

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Do any of you All-Knowing-People-of-The-Forum ( :bowdown: that was my silly attempt on humor) know a theory or at least can direct me to a thread discussing the plural on (off?) the walls on the Night's Watch vows? I already searched and while I found a lot of threads discussing all things wall related, none seem to investigate this specific question and since I reckon I know nothing, I thought of just come here and ask for help.

And Sam, at the Nightfort:

discussions like this one are often brought up in the heresy threads (for example this one). However I remember once we had a discussion here, which I can't find it!!! IIRC the general outcome was that the phrase "the walls" was more of a "poetic" way to say "the boundaries" rather that the Wall itself. At least, that's the explanation that made it for me ;)

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discussions like this one are often brought up in the heresy threads (for example this one). However I remember once we had a discussion here, which I can't find it!!! IIRC the general outcome was that the phrase "the walls" was more of a "poetic" way to say "the boundaries" rather that the Wall itself. At least, that's the explanation that made it for me ;)

Hi dear! Oh I'm so into the Heresy threads my head is hurting!!! Actually, the walls thing came up there (the very first thread) but no one else talked about it... Or at least up until my head started smoking and I stopped, haha. Well, if you ever remember the discussion, send me a message? Thank again my guru!

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Hi dear! Oh I'm so into the Heresy threads my head is hurting!!! Actually, the walls thing came up there (the very first thread) but no one else talked about it... Or at least up until my head started smoking and I stopped, haha. Well, if you ever remember the discussion, send me a message? Thank again my guru!

sure, in case I find it I'll PM you ASAP ;) (oh... and.... "guru"... :blushing: :blushing: :blushing: )

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It's obvious that Jaime believes his "finest act" to be his slaying of Aerys. However, I can't figure out what the kindness he never did is, and who loves him for it? Do we know? I thought may it refer to the Tyrion/Tysha incident, but that doesn't seem to make sense seeing as how we learn that Tysha was indeed "real," and Jaime did actually chase off Tysha's pursuers.

The fact that Tysha wasn't truly a whore makes it a kindness he never did. Tyrion loves him because he thinks he tried to do something "nice" for him (i.e., arranging to have him lose his virginity), when in reality Jaime never did any such thing. Thus he is loved by one for a kindness he never did.

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It´s a fan speculation based on two simple facts:

It's not fan speculation. The idea that three heads=three riders comes straight from the books (I believe it was Ser Jorah her first suggests it in a conversation with Dany near the end of ACOK). That said, it's still an open question whether or not it's the correct interpretation.

discussions like this one are often brought up in the heresy threads (for example this one). However I remember once we had a discussion here, which I can't find it!!! IIRC the general outcome was that the phrase "the walls" was more of a "poetic" way to say "the boundaries" rather that the Wall itself. At least, that's the explanation that made it for me ;)

That would be my interpretation as well. "Watcher on the walls" is just a poetic way of saying "defender on the fortification."

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The fact that Tysha wasn't truly a whore makes it a kindness he never did. Tyrion loves him because he thinks he tried to do something "nice" for him (i.e., arranging to have him lose his virginity), when in reality Jaime never did any such thing. Thus he is loved by one for a kindness he never did.

This makes sense. The part I'm hung up on is the fact that Tyrion was heartbroken when he found out she was a (supposed) whore, so it's hard for me to have Jaime think of his role in it as a "kindness." I suppose I am allowing myself to mix up Jaime and Tywin's role in the Tysha lie too much, and that Tyrion could still very well think of Jaime's part, in an otherwise hurtful event, as kind.

Thanks for the replies!

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This makes sense. The part I'm hung up on is the fact that Tyrion was heartbroken when he found out she was a (supposed) whore, so it's hard for me to have Jaime think of his role in it as a "kindness." I suppose I am allowing myself to mix up Jaime and Tywin's role in the Tysha lie too much, and that Tyrion could still very well think of Jaime's part, in an otherwise hurtful event, as kind.

Thanks for the replies!

I don't think he does think of it as a kindness, seems like he was ashamed of it at another time, might be misrembering. But he tells the lie to Tyrion as if it's a kindness and Tyrion loves him for it because it's not Jaime just buying him a whore and saying 'this is the best you can get Imp', he supposedly cares enough about Tyrion to set up this whole charade to give Tyrion at least the illusion of self worth and dignity. And even that little bit is more than Tyrion thinks anyone else has ever cared about him.

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It's not fan speculation. The idea that three heads=three riders comes straight from the books (I believe it was Ser Jorah her first suggests it in a conversation with Dany near the end of ACOK). That said, it's still an open question whether or not it's the correct interpretation.

I´m sorry. There´s just too much information in these books. I need to do a re-read, but Dany´s chapters (with the exception of aGoT) always come last and I just skip through them. (And who trusts to the loser Jorah, anyway? ;))

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I don't know, GreenDream... When I read it for the first time, it stroke me as odd, but I thought that it was a language thing also. And then, reading some other thread here, someone wrote "the Wall" and I though that this is really how it is known... With the on front...

There was this thread. Did not really find any answer, but it might be interesting for you.

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Okay, do we know where Jaimie got his copy of "Silence of the Lambs," because that jail break scene when he kills his cousin, (not in the book right, or was I drinking and missed it)?, is truly remeniscent of that.

Totally not in the book but the Hannibal Lecter ripoff was pretty good.

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