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A Thread for Small Questions XVII


Angalin

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Maybe so, but I think we can agree that Varys is always at least 2 steps ahead of everyone else

Why would he bother killing Ned, though? Sending him to the Watch already achieves the goal of removing him from the game, and cooling tensions between the Starks and Lannisters. Killing him while he's en route to the Wall only risks inflaming those tensions again.

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Maybe so, but I think we can agree that Varys is always at least 2 steps ahead of everyone else

You have any links to discussion on this? That seems outlandish to hire a Faceless Man at their price just to murder a prisoner, even Ned. There has to be some grades of assassins between FM and the lackwit in Winterfell that would be more reasonable for the work.

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I never said I buy into the theory. Just that it's out there. I think we will learn why Jaqen was down there in the next book.

But a possible reason for him wanting to make sure Ned was not a factor might be that Varys didn't want to risk it. Ned sacrificed his honor to save his girls, but once his girls were safe he could just as easily revoke his admission of crimes. He confessed in front of the High Septon, the leader of a faith in which he doesn't follow. And he KNOWS the truth. Ned is highly respected throughout the realm. If he says he lied to save his daughters, I think many Lords (especially the parents) will sympathize. Then Ned might feel obligated to call his banners, and rally support to right the wrong he couldn't fix in King's Landing.

If anything is clear, it's that Varys wants the realm to be in chaos. For this to be true, he wanted Joffrey as king, and his mother as regent.

Keep in mind I'm just playing devil's advocate, I personally don't subscribe to this theory. There may be more of an argument for it that I don't know. I can't find the thread right now that brought this up, but if I do I'll link it.

ETA: I believe that even if he did take the black, I think he would tell Cat/Robb the truth and the North would still rally behind Stannis. But I still have no reason to believe that Varys would hire an assassin to kill Ned, since the North rallying behind Stannis would still accomplish his goal of creating chaos, just a little earlier than he intended.

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I never said I buy into the theory. Just that it's out there. I think we will learn why Jaqen was down there in the next book. But a possible reason for him wanting to make sure Ned was not a factor might be that Varys didn't want to risk it. Ned sacrificed his honor to save his girls, but once his girls were safe he could just as easily revoke his admission of crimes. He confessed in front of the High Septon, the leader of a faith in which he doesn't follow. And he KNOWS the truth. Ned is highly respected throughout the realm. If he says he lied to save his daughters, I think many Lords (especially the parents) will sympathize. Then Ned might feel obligated to call his banners, and rally support to right the wrong he couldn't fix in King's Landing.

If this was Varys's plan, then there was no point in negotiating Ned's pardon at all. He could simply have arranged for Ned to die in the cells.

Furthermore, it is simply unrealistic to expect Ned to break his promise to Cersei. If there's anyone you can expect to keep a promise, it's Ned Stark.

I believe that even if he did take the black, I think he would tell Cat/Robb the truth and the North would still rally behind Stannis.

I'm pretty sure part of the deal Ned made was that he would never reveal the truth to anyone.

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If this was Varys's plan, then there was no point in negotiating Ned's pardon at all. He could simply have arranged for Ned to die in the cells. Furthermore, it is simply unrealistic to expect Ned to break his promise to Cersei. If there's anyone you can expect to keep a promise, it's Ned Stark. I'm pretty sure part of the deal Ned made was that he would never reveal the truth to anyone.

O I agree, the same effect would be achieved if he died in the black cells. North still goes to war against the Lannisters and so on.

But I don't know about him keeping that promise. He does think there is honor in some lies, as he told Arya. But who knows? That would have been quite a moral conundrum for him. I don't know how he could justify keeping that secret. Unless Cersei kept his daughters hostage.

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Just to be clear, I am not one of those supercharged Littlefinger fans, so I am not trying to find every litte thing that might make him seem like more of a badass, if you can call him that.

With that said, in one of Catelyn's chapters in AGoT, when she first gets to King's Landing, Littlefinger has her brought to him, and Catelyn shows him the Valyrian Steel dagger. When Catelyn shows him the blade, he tosses it up in the air and then he catches it by the hilt, and after he catches it, he throws it perfectly into a wall or something.

Then a chapter or so later, Littlefinger is taking Ned to Catelyn, and they end up having to go down that ladder thing that is built into like a cliff. Anyway, Littlefinger goes first, and by the time Ned gets down the ladder, LF has already finished an apple. So that suggests LF climbed down the ladder much faster than Ned, and Ned is suppose to be the fit warrior/hunter type, and LF is like the office worker kind of guy, yet LF went down the ladder way faster than Ned.

So my question is, do you guys think LF did some kind of fighter blade training after Brandon Stark beat his ass in their duel??? Because LF appears to be pretty physically fit, and he knew how to handle that dagger pretty well. So is it possible LF is some kind of closet swordsman or something??? Did he vow to master the sword so nobody would ever make a fool of him again, and take what he wants(like when Brandon beat him and "took away Cat").

What do you guys think?

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I think scaling the wall frequently to be able to scurry about unnoticed would keep him in pretty good shape. We can also suppose that he received some training from the Master of Arms at Riverrun. Catelyn doesn't remember LF losing the duel because he is untrained, she remembers him losing because he is younger, smaller, and not as strong as Brandon Stark.

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Here's a question I cant figure out. When "weasel" wanted to free the northmen at Harrenhal Bolton was on the way there right? Originally both Lorch (who was holding Harrenhal) and Hoat were Lannister's. However they hated each other. After the serving of the weasel soup, above the cells they found dead guards - in other words there were other people besides Jaqen et al participating in the coup. Lo and behold Jaqen and his two buddies were in the Brave Companions who had gone over to Robb. Lorch was killed and the direwolf was raised.

So...how much of this was Jaqen's doing and how much was Hoat's doing, did they coordinate, had Bolton set this all up ahead of time? There was a lot going on. Had Bolton already gone over to the Lannisters? If so, he put Hoat into a bad situation - working for a Lannister man but claiming to follow the wolf. It was clearly more than just the weasel soup - otherwise there wouldnt have been dead guards above the cells and Hoat wouldnt have taken the direwolf. Perhaps Jaqen planted the seed of the idea in Hoat's mind?

Any help appreciated

Marie

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Yes it was a setup from the very beginning. The Northern 'injured' were suddenly not so injured once they got free.

“This of the soup, that was clever,” the man Glover was saying. “I did not expect that. Was it Lord Hoat’s idea?”

Them Bloody Mummers killed some of Ser Amory’s lot in their beds, and the rest at table after they were good and drunk.

Bolton makes the deal with Hoat, for Harrenhal right? In return the Goat brings in Glover and the Northerners, what Arya and Jaqen do is just get the ball rolling faster than planned.

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Yes it was a setup from the very beginning. The Northern 'injured' were suddenly not so injured once they got free.

“This of the soup, that was clever,” the man Glover was saying. “I did not expect that. Was it Lord Hoat’s idea?”

Them Bloody Mummers killed some of Ser Amory’s lot in their beds, and the rest at table after they were good and drunk.

Bolton makes the deal with Hoat, for Harrenhal right? In return the Goat brings in Glover and the Northerners, what Arya and Jaqen do is just get the ball rolling faster than planned.

Thank you! Explains how Jaqen got the idea so fast.

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Thank you! Explains how Jaqen got the idea so fast.

I don't believe he knew about the deal between Vargo Hoat and the northmen/Bolton. He turns to Arya and asks her if she understands after what the men say when they are released. That Vargo Hoat had turned his cloak and was betraying the Lannisters. The dead guards outside were killed by the northmen they had freed. They ran out, killed the guards, then took over the rest of the castle, killing the drunk lannister men in the mess hall. This would have all happened most likely without Arya's involvement, but she made it happen faster.

Jagen didn't know about the planned coupe. He figured out a plan to free the northmen, it had nothing to do with Vargo Hoat and his deal with Bolton.

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"Osha", Bran asked as they crossed the yard. "Do you know the way north? To the Wall and...even past?"

"The way's easy. Look for the Ice Dragon, and chase the blue star in the rider's eye."

The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but the snake was gone. Behind the cliff tall fires were eating up the stars.

Any chance Summer was just seeing the constellation through the smoke and fire and got a little freaked out?

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I don't believe he knew about the deal between Vargo Hoat and the northmen/Bolton. He turns to Arya and asks her if she understands after what the men say when they are released. That Vargo Hoat had turned his cloak and was betraying the Lannisters. The dead guards outside were killed by the northmen they had freed. They ran out, killed the guards, then took over the rest of the castle, killing the drunk lannister men in the mess hall. This would have all happened most likely without Arya's involvement, but she made it happen faster.

Jagen didn't know about the planned coupe. He figured out a plan to free the northmen, it had nothing to do with Vargo Hoat and his deal with Bolton.

Thank you - I forgot about the northmen ha ha.

But that would make it a coincidence that they were freed as Hoat was planning to turn unless Hoat was especially nimble and turned the minute he heard about the northmen being freed.

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Hi, I can't remember: Do we know who Ned's mother was and how she died?

That info hasn't been given in either the books or from GRRM in an interview.

Ok thanks.

We know that Eddard's grandmother (his mother's mother) was a member of house Flint, one of the mountain clans.

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I've got a question about Stannis and The Blackwater:

While The Battle of the Blackwater was raging on, we were brought into the thick of it via Davos' POV. He was in command of his ship, so he was far away from Stannis, but I think I remember him saying that Stannis was shouting orders from the back lines of his army.

But when I saw the preview of HBO's " Blackwater " , I saw Stannis leading the charge after the Baratheon army gets off the ships/rafts.

So, is that just a change made by HBO? Or was Stannis leading the charge in ACoK too?

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I've got a question about Stannis and The Blackwater:

While The Battle of the Blackwater was raging on, we were brought into the thick of it via Davos' POV. He was in command of his ship, so he was far away from Stannis, but I think I remember him saying that Stannis was shouting orders from the back lines of his army.

But when I saw the preview of HBO's " Blackwater " , I saw Stannis leading the charge after the Baratheon army gets off the ships/rafts.

So, is that just a change made by HBO? Or was Stannis leading the charge in ACoK too?

I'm sure Stannis wasn't leading the charge in the books.

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