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Book spoilers - Davos leading the ships on the Blackwater


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I did not at all find it surprising that the actual Admiral in the books (some Lord... Noros? Narys?Something along those lines, if I reacall it correctly) was cut from the series, and that Davos was given the comment.

Still, it leads to an important incoherence. Davos in the book severely criticised the Admiral's hasty push towards KL which was responsible for the massacre that awaited them there.

I wonder if in the series they make Davos stick to the same strategy as the Admiral in the books (possibly because he was commanded to hurry up by an impatient Stannis?), or whether they change his strategy so that he eg. sends ahead ships to probe the bay.

Very likely the first... which might make TV-Davos nowhere near as good a seaman as he is in the books.

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Yep, I was surprised at this. A good part of the first Davos chapter at the Blackwater is him mentally criticising Imry Florent for being too impatient. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how they handle it. We haven't heard anything from Tyrion's end about the chain yet.

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Yeah, they are compromising both men, Davos and Stannis by this decision.... I was even more shocked about the ships. I mean just look, Stannis' are a lot smaller then the ironborn "longship". WHY???

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They could also have Davos realize the trap and have his highborn captains ignore him and sail on anyway (hence the emphasis on people looking down on him because of his birth). They could even introduce Imry Florent in that scene as the spokesman of sorts.

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I don't like it. They're making Davos look completely worthless, whereas in the books he constantly provides Stannis with useful advice.

Also WTF was that business about rowing out to Storm's End in the dead of the night when Rely wasn't at Storm's End?

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Maybe they're cutting out the naval battle almost completely by Davos sending in a few ships to probe and their getting lit up by wildfire. There's no mention of Tyrion's chain being built as it is.

Yeah what Kingslayer said. There's probably as much chance of their doing a fullscale naval battle like in the books as there has been of seeing any significant mounted combat.

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As far as I know, Imry Florent has been cast, so he will probably end up rallying the ships and disobeying Davos' orders. Davos tried to warn Stannis that he will not be taken seriously by high born naval commanders, and I am sure that will come into play. I don't think the series will have Davos make such careless mistakes. (I hope not atleast)

I do find it curious that there has been no mention of a chain, as that was the key to the naval demise, and it was a genius tactical move by Tyrion.

I am going to have to agree with Jamie Lannister here and go with the assumption that this scene will be altered, but a naval battle involving wildfire and a handful of ships will occur. We will have to wait and see.

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They could also have Davos realize the trap and have his highborn captains ignore him and sail on anyway (hence the emphasis on people looking down on him because of his birth). They could even introduce Imry Florent in that scene as the spokesman of sorts.

I like that idea.

Although it's not a terrible thing if Davos is snookered by Tyrion. It gives him a better reason to be depressed. He gets suicidal after the battle.

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Its suprising, and isnt GRRM actually involved in the writing for the episode the 'Blackwater happens in?

I think the easiest way they are going to get out of this little mess is that some of those Angry Admirals are going to break ranks and fly in w/o Davos and ensure what happens in the book happens in the show. Thats all I can think they can do with it.

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Imry Florent (yes, that was the name of the chap) was actually cast? Sure? All the weirder than that he was not given command of the fleet.

Well, HBO somehow has the tendency to make awesome book characters look curiously inept in the TV series. Littlefinger anyone? Not bashing the actor, just the lines. I kind of fear that Davos will undergo the same treatment - being degraded from perhaps the best seaman in the whole of Westeros to an average commander who messes things up big time. Hope that Davos will actually draft up a great masterplan that will be screwed by Florent's vaingloriour headlong rush into battle - that would be interesting.

But I somehow fear for the worst - Davos being responsible for the Blackwater desaster even though we should have done better.

And yes - no chain? But that was so important! Well, I believe to the episode Blackwater we still have 3 scenes. Time to make a chain during that time.... I suppose.

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I think the chain will be introduced the same or previous episode to the battle. They don't feel they need to explain the logistics and they probably think people would forget about in in episode 5 and then it will come out of nowhere in episode 9. Tyrion will prob unviel it towards the end of episode 8 leaving the audience to wonder about what its for unitil the battle a week later.

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The chain can be introduced at any later time if they want.

Do you have a source for Imry Florent being cast?

I would have thought they would use Sallador somehow in the battle, since it'd be a waste for just one scene...

The do have 4 characters on the ships if I count right: Davos, Matthos Seaworth, Sallador and thus Imry Florent. That allows them to go in enough direction without making Davos look inept...

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They could also have Davos realize the trap and have his highborn captains ignore him and sail on anyway (hence the emphasis on people looking down on him because of his birth). They could even introduce Imry Florent in that scene as the spokesman of sorts.

It's odd, no wasted plot time to have Imry Florent the admiral as in the book.

What I think is going to happen is that it will be reduced down to Stannis devising the naval strategy and Davos making the astute observation that they ought to send in some of Salladhor Saan's swift ships (as in the book) as a probe to test of traps like the chain, and Stannis over rules Davos.

I guess Davos will command from the rear else wise he's BBQ.

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I though Davos's main son stayed with the red woman (that or squired for Stannis on the ground), it was other sons (the ones that appear to be cut) that captained ships and died).

The sons in the show are different. Stannis squire hasn't been introduced nor do I think he will...

In Episode 2, Melisandre talks to Matthos and tells him that Fire is a clean death I think. You can't get much more foreshadowing than this. And some characters need to die in the big battle...

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I think the comment Davos makes that "no lords will follow me" is likely foreshadowing for the exchange when Davos is made Stannis' hand of the king:

(paraphrasing);

Davos: "But I'm baseborn. None of the lords will follow me."

Stannis: "Then we will make new lords."

EPIC!

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Maybe they'll present it as a betrayal, as it would suck if Davos was shown to be incompetent at command. He's a pirate who knows scouts and guile are important, and would have never walked into Tyrion's chain or Cersei's wild fire.

There can still be incompetence where he fails to inspire his men, as no lord wants to recognize the up-jumped "onion knight," which is consistent with the books.

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