Queen Jeyne Westerling/Theories

[Eggplant Wizard]

I hope there is no conspiracy here, I want Jon to have to decide if he wants to be King in the North for realsies, not because Stannis would just appoint him as the head of Winterfell.

[Golden Twin]

That’s all this is. In other translations, notably the Russian one, this disparity doesn’t exist. I can’t find the reference right now, but Martin said that it was not intentional, that it was a flub-up. People are making a great deal out of something that isn’t even real per Martin himself.

Do translations even matter? GRRM and his editors would pick something like this up. It does feel a bit far fetched I agree, but given the few things that seem to suggest that there might be a baby King in the North somewhere, which is pretty big of a deal, GRRM would not let the ambiguity remain there.

Just a thought.

This theory stems from the difference in hip-width between the Jeyne described by Cat and the one described by Jaime.

Maybe Cat and Jaime have different standards for what pass as 'wide hips'?

Jaime may like his women 'full-bodied' :cool4:

But Cersei doesn't have full hips does she? She seems in the middle of skinny and normal, atleast the TV show one does anyway. Maybe that's just her height.

With the evidence at hand, its a good theory maybe there will be some clues/ revelations in Winds.

[Lord Damian]

the Blackfish is the key to Jeyne Westerling or, if as some have suggested, she already had a baby and he has the King

[Urien the Ragged]

i'm starting to believe that when Manderly finds Rickon and brings him back, he will declare Rickon King in the North and negotiate his ascendance with Stannis, who will be forced to compromise for the army and navy.

Stannis has the Bank of Braavos, sure, but Aegon has the Golden Company and Dany has all of the spare Unsullied, along with the Stormcrows--and Tyrion has the Second Sons. The Windblown are obsessed with Pentos.

what does this mean for Jeyne? it means she's with her mother and not pregnant. The true King in the North is now Rickon, and he will show his enemies little mercy with help from Manderly.

[FierceElite]

The fact that Talisa from Volantis appears to actually be Talisa from Volantis makes me think (unless this change wasn't run by GRRM) all of these Jeyne Westerling theories are barking up the wrong tree.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The fact that Talisa from Volantis appears to actually be Talisa from Volantis makes me think (unless this change wasn't run by GRRM) all of these Jeyne Westerling theories are barking up the wrong tree.

GRRM has said that he's not in control of the changes they make to the TV show. Won't know for sure until it does or doesn't happen, but I suspect that Jeyne is moonlighting as Talisa. She's obviously a "lady," and she had a definite reaction to the idea of being taken to the Crag (why mention the Crag at all if the Westerlings are cut?).

I actually had the opposite thought — the fact that they're actually showing Robb's relationship (it already has much, much more play than it had in the books) and laying its foundation must mean that there really is something important going on with this girl, whatever name she goes by.

[Dolorous Ali]

come on. Of course she has escaped with blackfish. Tom of sevens was near Edmure in the siege line. He must have told Edmure about UnCat, That's why the Frey party got all hanged (Ser Ryman, was it?). So, Tom could've come as an envoy from UnCat to let Jeyne and Blackfish escape to them. And I can recall Cat saying "good hips, at least she will have no trouble birthing" (maybe not the exact words). GRRM put a 5 year gap for AFfC. Don't you think that during these years he would've noticed that Jaime shouldn't say narrow hips? I'm not sold on this. I really think that Jeyne has escaped.

[Mugwump]

1) The good hips line is repeated twice, in different chapters. It struck me as a plot point but I didn't know where it lead until I ran across the Jeyne/swap theory.

2) I think the conspiracy with Tywin has some truth to it as well. The exchange between Tywin and Tyrion hints Tywin has something up his sleeve. My guess is that the mom and dad were in on it, but not Jeyne.

3) The Maggy the Frog connection cannot be an accident. My guess is that GRRM is telegraphing that Jeyne has visions, which will later be used to explain how she threw away her mom's potion and had a foreshadowing of Robb's death.

4) The plot point about Jon's legitimacy was highlighted too much to be useless. But if Jon is really a Targaryen/Stark child, then this could just be a sneaky method to legitimize Jon as the heir to the Targaryen claim in the eyes of the North. Not sure how this will play out given that none of the other claimants recognize Robb's kingship, but it could readily be the basis for Dany/Jon alliance that many see coming.

[Stubby]

[MOD]

Fanfic is not allowed on this forum.

[/MOD]

[Lummel]

...Tom of sevens was near Edmure in the siege line. He must have told Edmure about UnCat...

Tom O'Sevens providing information to the rest of the BWB - yes, talking to Edmure - probably not. Tom O'Sevens is the man who made up and sang the song about a floppy fish that made such a mockery of the joke that was Edmure's attempted love life. They are not friends.

[Dolorous Ali]

Tom O'Sevens providing information to the rest of the BWB - yes, talking to Edmure - probably not. Tom O'Sevens is the man who made up and sang the song about a floppy fish that made such a mockery of the joke that was Edmure's attempted love life. They are not friends.

What if he wanted to make it seem that they're not friends? Plus, they don't need to friends for this to work!

[Istari]

Okay - don't jump down my throat - but Jeyne has never struck me as a likeable character. I'm just curious why so many people want to her be pregnant/ escape with the Blackfish

I'm just looking for an explanation - not trying to create conflict

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Okay - don't jump down my throat - but Jeyne has never struck me as a likeable character. I'm just curious why so many people want to her be pregnant/ escape with the Blackfish

Because it gives the Lannisters and Freys a giant and well deserved "Fuck You." :)

[Lord Damian]

Because it gives the Lannisters and Freys a giant and well deserved "Fuck You." :)

Yeay, in a way, it negates the aims of the Red Wedding from a certain point of view. Jaime says that if Jeyne was ever to have the young wolf's baby, that child would be far more dangerous than his father. Robb was pretty fucking dangerous.

[Stubby]

Sigorn,

I think you hit the 'report' button instead of the 'post' button.

Make a generic post and I will edit in the text for you.

:)

[FierceElite]

GRRM has said that he's not in control of the changes they make to the TV show. Won't know for sure until it does or doesn't happen, but I suspect that Jeyne is moonlighting as Talisa. She's obviously a "lady," and she had a definite reaction to the idea of being taken to the Crag (why mention the Crag at all if the Westerlings are cut?).

I actually had the opposite thought — the fact that they're actually showing Robb's relationship (it already has much, much more play than it had in the books) and laying its foundation must mean that there really is something important going on with this girl, whatever name she goes by.

I imagine if the change had major implications, GRRM would speak up about them turning Jeyne into a different character entirely.

I guess there's a still a chance she's actually Jeyne, but the story she told was a pretty convincing and detailed lie. And I don't think they've done anything with Robb's storyline that made it worthwhile to keep him so much in the show this season. Just built up to a sex scene.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I imagine if the change had major implications, GRRM would speak up about them turning Jeyne into a different character entirely.

They've killed off characters like Mago knowing they had other roles in the story.

I guess there's a still a chance she's actually Jeyne, but the story she told was a pretty convincing and detailed lie. And I don't think they've done anything with Robb's storyline that made it worthwhile to keep him so much in the show this season. Just built up to a sex scene.

Why mention The Crag then? Notice her reaction when Robb mentions it?

Oh but it's just a build-up to boning. Right. Silly me.

[Lord Damian]

They've killed off characters like Mago knowing they had other roles in the story.

Why mention The Crag then? Notice her reaction when Robb mentions it?

Oh but it's just a build-up to boning. Right. Silly me.

I sense that She is incognito but is really Jeyne. She could be a hostage if she were to say that she is high born being that her father is lord of the Crag. She seems to have a good heart though and it fits the book Jeyne who tends to Robb's wounds.

[Mugwump]

I am sure this has been mentioned elsewhere, but I didn't see it in this thread. I re-read Storm of Swords and Feast of Crows. One thing that jumped out at me this time was that Jeyne's uncle Spicer (the one who Grey Wind growls at) is awarded Castamere by Tommen at the end of the book, for reasons never stated. Presumably, he performed something meriting this award, and the only thing plausible is that he helped sabotage Robb's alliance with the Freys. I think it is definite that some faction of the Spicers deliberately set up Robb. It's an open question whether that includes Jeyne. GRRM's traitors are usually bad actors, and impending treachery is almost always foreshadowed by behavior. My guess is that Jeyne was a pawn.

[NorthRemembers]

My theory is, Jeyne, Edmure, her sister and the Blackfish schemed together on the fly right before Riverrun surrendered. Jeyne escaped with the Blackfish without her mother knowing, and Sybell had no choice but to go along with it, pretending that Jeyne's sister was Jeyne. She can't tell Jaime that she lost Jeyne, so she has to go with the plot, unwillingly, because the alternative isn't an option. Jaime sees "Jeyne" with a dried sore and marks on her face and asks about them. Sybell says she resisted when they took her crown — but we never see this crown, and Jaime never receives it in surrender. My idea is, Sybell slapped Elenya around when she found out Jeyne had escaped, and those were the marks Jaime saw. As for "crossing the Lannisters" — Tywin is dead by then and the house is in disarray. If you're going to pull one over on them, now's the time.

Jeyne escaping with Brynden doesn't necessarily point to her being pregnant, but that makes the most sense. The only proof that Sybell gave Jeyne moon tea is what she told Jaime. I think it's possible for her to have hedged her bets — giving Jeyne a fertility potion when Robb was in power, with the knowledge that she could always help abort it if something happened. She never got the chance to abort the baby, but with Elenya there in Jeyne's place — who was assuredly not pregnant — Sybell could tell the moon tea lie and not get caught in it, for the foreseeable future. There's also the chance that Jeyne or someone else figured out that she was getting moon tea, and stopped taking the potion.

There are a few clues that something's up. The girls' hips don't match. Jeyne's sister isn't on the inventory when Jaime's there. He sees a girl with narrow hips who resembles Jeyne — it could easily be her sister. The girl covering her face and shredding her clothes could be ways to hide her identity from westermen who might recognize her, and hide an ill fit of clothes that weren't made for her, respectively. The Blackfish emphasized his vow to defend Robb's queen, so why would he abandon her?

The tricky part was always reconciling Sybell's scheming with the possibility of Jeyne being switched. But if you have the scenario I described above, there's no conflict.

Love this explanation of the theory apple. Sign me up for team "Jeynes been switched?" haha.