Queen Jeyne Westerling/Theories

[Ravage]

The dialogue between Prester and Jaime basically reads like a comedy show in dropping heavy handed hints. When told to kill Lord westerlings daughter should she flee, Prester almost blurts out the truth, but is interrupted by jaime:

“Best keep some archers near Lord Westerling’s daughter as well.”

Ser Forley seemed taken aback. “Gawen’s girl? She’s—”

“—the Young Wolf’s widow,” Jaime finished, “and twice as dangerous as Edmure if she were ever to escape us.”

“As you say, my lord. She will be watched.”.

Why would someone refer to the Young Wolfs Queen/widow as "Gawens girl"? Should it not be more natural for him to refer to her as "The young wolfs widow?" Only the younger of the daughters would still be called "Gawens girl" in this sort of spinal reaction/reflex.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

^ That same sort of "cut off" drawn-to-conclusions is used in the same book by the other Lannister twin.

Pycelle: "She asked for moon tea for —"

Cersei: "I know what it's for!"

[JimZipCode]

I don't think they've done anything with Robb's storyline that made it worthwhile to keep him so much in the show this season. Just built up to a sex scene.

But an extra hot one.

[FierceElite]

Why mention The Crag then? Notice her reaction when Robb mentions it?

Oh but it's just a build-up to boning. Right. Silly me.

Feeling more and more unlikely that they reveal she's actually Jeyne AFTER this point...but what do I know?

[LordDolorousEdd]

i see this whole original theory as possible but i am not sure how much of that is simply because i want it to be true...

[LordDolorousEdd]

On second thought i don't really see what a baby is going to add to the story in the foreseeable future maybe when everything is done but not until very late.

[Koekfabriek]

On second thought i don't really see what a baby is going to add to the story in the foreseeable future maybe when everything is done but not until very late.

I think that when Robb has an heir, it is harder for the Boltons to get a good gripp on the North. Starks are mostly well liked by the northeners. So if it is true that Robb has an heir (wich I hope) than mabye we are going to see a big uprising in the north againg to give the stark family their ''rights'' back.

[The Irish Wolf]

On second thought i don't really see what a baby is going to add to the story in the foreseeable future maybe when everything is done but not until very late.

I agree completely. I would absolutely be thrilled if Robb had a son, but the scene with Jeyne and her mother talking to the Kingslayer seems very convincing in emotions for Jeyne, also Tywin alluding to how the Westerlings learned from "The Rains of Castamere", which we see what was promised with Jaime's conversation with Lady Westerling. An heir may entice some lords and loyalty for some but I couldn't see it as plausible without the 5 year gap GRRM had intended to put into the story

[LordDolorousEdd]

I think that when Robb has an heir, it is harder for the Boltons to get a good gripp on the North. Starks are mostly well liked by the northeners. So if it is true that Robb has an heir (wich I hope) than mabye we are going to see a big uprising in the north againg to give the stark family their ''rights'' back.

well jon could be an heir and rickon is about to be found too so again i say what is the point of a baby coming into the picture?

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

The scene with Faux Jeyne and Lady Westerling rings true because the sister was crying over the news of her brother's death. Remember Reynald died at the Red Wedding after freeing Grey Wing (may he RIP).

Edmure was freed by Jaime and returned to Riverrun. During the night he gather Jeyne, The Blackfish, Lady Westerling, and Jeyne's sister and told them what had really occurred that terrible night.

So they both knew what had happened and my bet is that they are willing to double cross and trick the Lannisters once more to get revenge.

[Koekfabriek]

well jon could be an heir and rickon is about to be found too so again i say what is the point of a baby coming into the picture?

Jon is until we here more bound to the wall and the NW, Rickon is not yet found, and believed dead by the complete north (except Manderly ofcourse). A little boy in the belly of Jeyne could just the spark/stark that set the North on fire against the Bolton's. Ramsey claim on winterfell gets much weaker.

[JimZipCode]

Faux Jeyne and Lady Westerling rings true because the sister was crying over the news of her brother's death. Remember Reynald died at the Red Wedding after freeing Grey Wind (may he RIP).

Old news, everybody in Westeros has known about the Red Wedding for some time now. Jeyne or Faux Jeyne has to be crying for some other reason.

[Jolene Brown]

The dialogue between Prester and Jaime basically reads like a comedy show in dropping heavy handed hints. When told to kill Lord westerlings daughter should she flee, Prester almost blurts out the truth, but is interrupted by jaime:

“Best keep some archers near Lord Westerling’s daughter as well.”

Ser Forley seemed taken aback. “Gawen’s girl? She’s—”

“—the Young Wolf’s widow,” Jaime finished, “and twice as dangerous as Edmure if she were ever to escape us.”

“As you say, my lord. She will be watched.”.

Why would someone refer to the Young Wolfs Queen/widow as "Gawens girl"? Should it not be more natural for him to refer to her as "The young wolfs widow?" Only the younger of the daughters would still be called "Gawens girl" in this sort of spinal reaction/reflex.

I think the point of this is that Gawen is a Lannister bannerman and an ally - Forster is surprised that Jaime is implicitly threatening her. Remember that one of Daven's aggravations at Riverrun was having Gawen pestering him about his children and wife inside the castle. Prester still thinks of Jeyne as "Gawen's girl," i.e. - on his side. Jaime is reminding him that she could actually be a threat to their interests if she escapes.

I don't like the idea of Jeyne being pregnant, because I think GRRM has done a really interesting job of setting up a sort of weird situation with the different Stark children's different claims to Winterfell. It should be Bran, but he is crippled and living in a cave. Rickon was pretty messed up the last time we saw him. Sansa is still married to Tyrion. Arya will have issues because of fake Arya. Jon is a bastard and sworn to the Night's Watch. We don't know what the hell Robb's will says, though we can guess. Giving him an heir by Jeyne sort of cuts through all of that and makes the situation more clearcut, which is comparatively boring.

[Frey Pie]

Loving this thread. Iv always been a big believer of the Jeyne is pregnant theory. There seems to be evidence in the actual text, which is substantially different to many other theories circulating about. I believe it was the Spicers who did the dirty dealing with Tywin to do with pregnancy. However i would love the irony of Jeyne somehow ending up in uncle Rolphs castle, Castamere, and setting Robb heir up from Tywins greatest achievement ie the ruin of his enemy the Castameres.

What do people think about Talisa? Is there a theory that shes actually Jeyne or that Jeyne is actually Talsia or something? Must have missed it!

[YTDN]

What do people think about Talisa? Is there a theory that shes actually Jeyne or that Jeyne is actually Talsia or something? Must have missed it!

There was a theory that she's Jeyne in disguise, but it seems to be pretty unlikely now that she told her backstory and married Robb. It seems that for the sake of cutting down on characters (the Westerling family) and other unfathomable reasons we have an original character taking Jeyne's role in the text, which is to cause him to break his oath to Walder Frey. There's a thread in GoT general discussing the ramifications of this change regarding the pregnant Jeyne theory.

[garethtoogood]

Just a thought. Given GRRM has and is working closely on the tv scripts, what does the fact Jayne is written out of the tv series say to you? I can't see GRRM developing alternative scenarios for book and tv. Her time has come and gone: no baby!

[oscarinfw]

The scene with Faux Jeyne and Lady Westerling rings true because the sister was crying over the news of her brother's death. Remember Reynald died at the Red Wedding after freeing Grey Wing (may he RIP).

...

Actually, Reynald went over the Wall walk into the river (presumably) with at least two (2) crossbow bolts in him. It's only presumed he has perished....

[FierceElite]

Just a thought. Given GRRM has and is working closely on the tv scripts, what does the fact Jayne is written out of the tv series say to you? I can't see GRRM developing alternative scenarios for book and tv. Her time has come and gone: no baby!

Actually, GRRM isn't working that closely with the show at all. He writes one episode per season, then goes back to his other obligations. He literally can't stop any changes they make, and he said he does his best to not influence anything. With that said, my initial thought was the same. If Jeyne was left out of the show, that probably means GRRM didn't clue them into any future implications that would have. Granted, I guess technically "Talisa" could get pregnant all the same.

[carmela28]

Two things sealed it for me. One was the Wolf banner which flew on the highest spire of the castle. Martin takes pains to point that out. It's more prominently displayed than the Tully banner. That says something. The next day, when the Blackfish (and Jeyne) are gone the banner is gone too. We never see it lowered. It symbolizes that the wolf queen fled.

I did not notice this fact when I read and I think it is very significant. For me, its fits perfectly with the Blackfish's defiant attitude. Excellent catch...

I think this is important. At this point, Robb's dead, Bran and Rickon and Arya are presumed dead, and Sansa is Lady Lannister. The Blackfish stayed at Riverrun and wouldn't be privy to the will. So who are they flying the flag for?

I love this flag theory and Apple Martini offers perfect logic as to why the Stark flag flew above Riverrun. Anyone that isn't Manderly assumes that any possible Stark heirs are dead. Jon isn't a consideration. And it sure wasn't flown as a show of sympathy. There can only be one reason.

As far as Queen Jeyne's brother dying at the Red Wedding, there is no body, he was shot with arrows while freeing Greywind and fell in the River. He is suspected of being dead but GRRM made a point of leaving it like this for now and his mother pissed about it.

Thanks - I thought I was losing my mind. There is no mention of Raynald's body - and in Martin's world - that could lead one to believe that he is not dead. I prefer to think that he escaped with the Blackfish and pregnant Jeyne. He deserves to hang around - he wanted to unleash Grey Wind.

I actually had the opposite thought — the fact that they're actually showing Robb's relationship (it already has much, much more play than it had in the books) and laying its foundation must mean that there really is something important going on with this girl, whatever name she goes by.

I agree. The increased focus on Robb's relationship means that his wife is very important. I don't think it matters who she is or isn't. (The entire Westerling saga may be unnecessarily complicated.) And now we know that the Blackfish is being cast for S3. Both facts seem to support this theory - that pregnant Jeyne/Talisa is on the run with the Blackfish.

[houseHB]

Just a thought what if they changed Jeyne's name in the show because there will be another Jeyne later on? Jeyne Poole? They did the same with Asha, because the produces thought only casual viewers would be confused between Osha and Asha?