White-Luck Warrior IX

[Kalbear]

I think this speaks more of people that read pon than it does kvothe.

[Tears of Lys]

I enjoy both Bakker AND Rothfuss. Sometimes you're in the mood for chateaubriand and sometimes you crave pizza.

Rothfuss, you can drop in on and reread a chapter or two before bed at night. There's more going on than meets the eye and is not as simple a tale as might be thought on first reading, but it's generally an easier read. Bakker you've got to devote some brain cells to. Like, I wouldn't be able to join in on the discussion here without a deep rereading of quite a bit of it (as I plan to do soon.)

But I get a kick out of both of them. YMMV.

[Kalbear]

Well, it also depends on what you mean when you say hard.

Is it complex? Not hugely.

Are the character names and place names complicated and tough to keep track of? For many, yep.

Is it hard to keep interested through all the flashbacks and philosophy? Sometimes.

Is it hard for many to continue to be hammered by the misogyny stick? Yep.

Is it hard to read some laughably bad prose? Sometimes.

It's funny that you'd jump immediately to the elitist interpretation. Which is why I said it speaks more to readers of pon than it does readers of kvothe.

[Sci-2]

Is it hard to read some laughably bad prose? Sometimes.

Example?

[Francis Buck]

You know, I actually thought the prose was pretty good when I first started reading TDTCB, but after the prologue it kind of dwindles in quality down to a certain point, and then pretty much stays at that level for the rest of the series (though I think there is an improvement with TJE -- still haven't gotten around to WLW). It's like he spent a bunch of time working on the prologue, but then as it goes on his bag of tricks starts to run low, and by half-way through TDTCB the illusion kinda stops. I don't know that I'd say he's laughably bad (beyond the occasional honey-smelling anus and death swirling down), but it certainly isn't great either.

Regardless, I don't read PON for the prose, or even the storytelling really. I just think the world-building is ridiculously awesome and original.

[Shryke]

I'd say PON is far more complex and requires more thinking invested in it then Rothfuss' stuff.

Rothfuss is a breazy, straightforward narrative. It's a fun easy read with some good foreshadowing and such going on.

[Shryke]

Rothfuss is straightforward, he just hints at his backstory really well.

[Sci-2]

Rothfuss's stuff is more akin to a gaming experience than a novel with "depth". Seeding details that allow you to guess the ending is a skill, just like worldbuilding is a skill, but it's not the same thing as complexity in characterization. Even a novel with good prose can be superficial.

With Bakker I thought the quality of the prose has gotten better and better, but there are things that give me pause. Sometimes it feels like the writing is trying too hard. Characterization - male characters good, female characters subject to endless debate. ;-)

[Kalbear]

I probably can't find specific examples any more as I've gotten rid of my books. If you like, you can omit that criticism one from PoN. Though to be fair this is one of those I've heard a lot from others. Some of the 'sorcerers sing' stuff is pretty silly - especially if you add 'rick astley' to the end of the sentences. :)

Neuropath certainly has quite a few horrible bits. The mocked spoons one, for instance, was pretty bad.

[Sci-2]

meh, Neuropath is trash. it is known. i consider that an outlier, like hacking out phlegm.

[Kalbear]

Hee!

Also, Rick astley came swirling down.

[Sci-2]

Bakker really needs to release the TUC chapter, if this is what his threads have devolved into.

That said, what do you guys think the Tekne could do for big pharm and corportized medicine? Johnson & Johnson turned to Aurax and Aurang.

I was going to suggest they could have some great ideas for birth control, but then I remembered the Womb Plague.

[Ayx]

Bakker has non-flowery good prose, that stays with you for a while and sometimes pops into your thoughts all of a sudden months later. Ruffus prose is more flowery and at first glance seems better, but for some reason that beauty does not have staying power.

The "The lines of unreal geometries exploded forth... " is actually pretty good and original to me. The actual applications of sorcery in the books is rare enough event, so it does not get repetitive, and using math / algebra wording for Mandate-style sorcery, is to reinforce the point that these are based on logic, control and preciseness of meaning.

Similarly for all the water-spouting imagery of Cisharuim magic, emphasizing the barely controllable nature of energy they unleash.

Stream of consciousness experiment in the Atrocity Tales from the Nonmen POV was pretty good too, the character detachedly observing his body flailing as it's being burned and "..suddenly realized he is made of meat.." part kind of gave me shivers for days.

[Sci-2]

I found the geometry stuff to be way to[o] repetitive. It wasn't just that it was mathy, it felt it was phrased the same way over and over again. Parabolas of light, scintillating geometries, etc.

White Luck Warrior had the best prose save for a few minor stumbles, and Fallen Sun is also really well told.

The Nonmen stream of consciousness was a little too forced IMO. Confusing for confusion's sake. And you have young Conphas acting like yet another misanthropic sadist...Yawn.

Another worry I have regarding TUC is the Consult is all poorly explained torturers. It'll turn on a supposed universal understanding of human nature implied without proof - see Guys' Gotta Bust a Nut Yo aka Fayanal and Yatwer-priestess. :rolleyes:

[marwyn]

There were a few word repetitions in tWLW that bothered me specifically, especially the word 'hoary'. He uses that ALL over the place, which kind of made it feel like a "look guys, I found a new word!'. I had never seen that word before except in World of Warcraft 'Hoary crystals'. So to see it appear 20-30 times in one book was a bit strange to me.

Also, ever came death swirling down (and are men deceived).

I do agree with Sciborg that the writing sometimes seems to try too hard. Bakker tends to put ideas, thoughts, feelings, into overcomplicated statements and descriptions. To me this comes across as if he's trying to make whatever he's talking about very profound, deep, and philosophical: sometimes it is, but just as often it isn't. It often also leads to beautiful prose however so I mostly forgive him for it.

The quotes that he puts at the start of every chapter are amazing as well. Again: not always deep and profound, but often clever, witty, or just beautifully phrased. "Of course we make crutches of one another. Why else would we crawl when we lose our lovers?"

[Happy Ent]

GRRM (throws Dance on the table): “Scott, I’ll see your hoary, swirling death and raise you a niello, two nuncles, and a must needs.”

[Happy Ent]

I cannot but mention the arboreal perspective on the use of the word hoary in Warrior.

It appears 19 times in total, 5 of which describe trees!

* Trees so vast and hoary

* An oak had been felled in its hoary prime

* immense and hoary (trunks)

* knotted like hoary old treetrunks

and, the winner:

* … grinding his phallus against hoary bark

I kid you not.

The other hoarys are mostly for the Captain.

[Tears of Lys]

I found the geometry stuff to be way to[o] repetitive. It wasn't just that it was mathy, it felt it was phrased the same way over and over again. Parabolas of light, scintillating geometries, etc.

IMHO, one can never get enough of sparkling and scintillating geometries... spoken as one who aced Geometry, but "averaged" Algebra.

I cannot but mention the arboreal perspective on the use of the word hoary in Warrior.

It appears 19 times in total, 5 of which describe trees!

* Trees so vast and hoary

* An oak had been felled in its hoary prime

* immense and hoary (trunks)

* knotted like hoary old treetrunks

and, the winner:

* … grinding his phallus against hoary bark

I kid you not.

Well, it's general knowledge that trees are the whores of the plant world. Maples alone account for the majority of seedlings spread indiscriminately in my yard alone. I rest my case.

[Rhom]

Well, it's general knowledge that trees are the whores of the plant world. Maples alone account for the majority of seedlings spread indiscriminately in my yard alone. I rest my case.

I have sworn that if I see one damn maple with their helicopters planted in my subdivision... I will swirl scintilating geometries of radiant death down upon them. And then ever will the homeowners be decieved when I blame the death of their infernal seed bearing spawns upon the eminations from the phallus of the neighbor's stray dog.

Man I hate those things.

[Sci-2]

IMHO, one can never get enough of sparkling and scintillating geometries... spoken as one who aced Geometry, but "averaged" Algebra.

Heh....You sure you weren't Kellhus?