Jump to content

In Defense of Rhaegar.


GreyDeLeon

Recommended Posts

Through out the series we get conflicting details about this character's personality and actions. On one hand he's the wicked Prince in the other he is the Ideal Prince. My argument (opinion) leans more towards the latter.

This quote from GoT is from when Ned and Robert were in the Crepts speaking about what Rhaegar had done.

"I vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her."

"You did," Ned reminded him.

"Only once," Robert said bitterly. pg.28 GoT

Each time the rape is mentioned it is usually by someone who had a negative feelings to the Targaryen's. When crossed what could stop Robert Baratheon rage even Jon and Ned could not stop his blood lust and hate.

"And Rhaegar . . . how many times do you think he raped

your sister? How many hundreds of times?" His voice had grown so loud that his horse whinnied

nervously beneath him. The king jerked the reins hard, quieting the animal, and pointed an angry finger at

Ned. "I will kill every Targaryen I can get my hands on, until they are as dead as their dragons, and then I

will piss on their graves." pg. 73 GoT

When Dany asked Jorah and Barristan they side step not wanting to fully confirm her questions. Yes it maybe to protect the honor of her house or to shield her from a supposed truth. But what if Lyanna did love Rhaegar? Than how would this story of Rape come about, and that she was taken by force?

"Robert will never keep to one bed," Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their

father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm's End. "I hear he has gotten a child on some

girl in the Vale." Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his

sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a

good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. "Love is sweet,

dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature" pg 252 GoT

If she knew his nature and did not love him, could she have fallen for Rhaegar? Who was forced to marry Elia because of Aerys fear of Tywin and not wanting to increase his power. So he did not love her but did it out of obligation. And by many accounts Rhaegar was knowledgeable, Chivalrous and Revolutionary.

"As you wish," said Whitebeard. "As a young boy, the Prince of Dragonstone was bookish to a fault. He

was reading so early that men said Queen Rhaella must have swallowed some books and a candle whilst

he was in her womb. Rhaegar took no interest in the play of other children. The maesters were awed by

his wits, but his father's knights would jest sourly that Baelor the Blessed had been born again. Until one

day Prince Rhaegar found something in his scrolls that changed him. No one knows what it might have

been, only that the boy suddenly appeared early one morning in the yard as the knights were donning

their steel. He walked up to Ser Willem Darry, the master-at-arms, and said, 'I will require sword and

armor. It seems I must be a warrior."'pg73 aSoS

"Rhaegar had put his hand on Jaime’s shoulder. “When this battle’s done I mean to call a

council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but... well, it does no good to speak of

roads not taken. We shall talk when I return.” Pg.95 aFfC

We are unsure if he fancied Elia but he obeyed his fathers wishes and Wed her. With all this evidence of his amiable character why would people think he raped her?

I believe Ned did not speak the truth, and let Rhaegar name be soiled, his honor shattered to protect his son. How could this protect Jon Snow?

Well if Robert knew that Lyanna loved Rhaegar than he would also conclude that a child may have been conceived. Robert would be less inclined to question Ned about the what happened in

the ToJ, Why would Robert want to know the state of the women he loved, what savage thing Rhaegar had done to her. Would he have believed that she was in any

state to bare a child?

Ned Tarnished another mans honor. A died mans honor. He lied about events that could have changed and reshaped the history books. I think the price he paid. If the truth was made public what would they think of Robert the usurper and the Starks?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also lean toward the 'Rhaegar was not a rapist', camp, but I've got a crazy theory about him and Lyanna. I don't think they were in love (or at least that Rhaegar loved her). I think Rhaegar ran off with her with the intent to father another prophecy-child, as suggested by his words in the House of the Undying. I don't think he was in love with Lyanna, or with Elia - I think he was in the closet.

And I swear by the Seven that I thought so before Dance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also lean toward the 'Rhaegar was not a rapist', camp, but I've got a crazy theory about him and Lyanna. I don't think they were in love (or at least that Rhaegar loved her). I think Rhaegar ran off with her with the intent to father another prophecy-child, as suggested by his words in the House of the Undying. I don't think he was in love with Lyanna, or with Elia - I think he was in the closet.

And I swear by the Seven that I thought so before Dance.

Jon Connington's love for Rhaegar was unrequited though, regardless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure whether or not Rhaegar was a rapist or not. I do think that Rhaegar was a man burdened by thoughts that it was his obligation and duty to perform specific tasks in order for something to be fulfilled. Whatever that something was, I believe that he felt that it was his sole purpose in life. As a man who undeniably valued education, he must have found something in his readings (and we know him to be well versed in prophecy) that led him to believe that he had a significant role to play. That being said, I don't believe Rhaegar loved. In the HOTU, he brings up the need for another child while Aegon is born. I think that everything Rhaegar did, including dying on the Trident, was for the fulfillment of the task that he dedicated his entire life to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure whether or not Rhaegar was a rapist or not. I do think that Rhaegar was a man burdened by thoughts that it was his obligation and duty to perform specific tasks in order for something to be fulfilled. Whatever that something was, I believe that he felt that it was his sole purpose in life. As a man who undeniably valued education, he must have found something in his readings (and we know him to be well versed in prophecy) that led him to believe that he had a significant role to play. That being said, I don't believe Rhaegar loved. In the HOTU, he brings up the need for another child while Aegon is born. I think that everything Rhaegar did, including dying on the Trident, was for the fulfillment of the task that he dedicated his entire life to.

But then there's that passage only a few pages later, where she see Rhaegar fall to the ground and murmur a woman's name...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm from the camp that believes that Rhaegar did not rape Lyanna, and that he would have actually made a pretty good king. However, Rhaegar not letting it be known that Lyanna did in fact run away with him (if thats what happenned) and letting the war start in the first place seems questionable. I know it wasnt Lyanna's "abduction" that caused the war technically, it was Brandon Stark and his boys calling for Rhaegars head, and Aerys' reaction to that that started it. I would expect better from the Dragon Prince in that regard.

I know words are wind, but Rhaegar did tell Jaime that he planned on changing things when he was done putting down the Rebellion. The question is though, how did he plan on doing this if Aerys was still alive? I don't think that the Kingsguard would have been agreeable towards Rhaegar forcing his father to step aside or killing him, maybe with the exception of Ser Arthur or Ser Jaime. So, how was Rhaegar going to change things?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone in Westeros knew Aerys was a terrible king. He didn't get the nick name "The Mad King" for nothing. I agree with Ser Adam that Rhaegar wanted to change things. Somewhere in the text it's mentioned that Aerys was aware of Rhaegar's growing power. (It has to do with the tourney at Harrenhall. Maybe it's in one of Jaime's chapters.) Sadly, Rhaegar didn't live long enough to enact his plans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm from the camp that believes that Rhaegar did not rape Lyanna, and that he would have actually made a pretty good king. However, Rhaegar not letting it be known that Lyanna did in fact run away with him (if thats what happenned) and letting the war start in the first place seems questionable. I know it wasnt Lyanna's "abduction" that caused the war technically, it was Brandon Stark and his boys calling for Rhaegars head, and Aerys' reaction to that that started it. I would expect better from the Dragon Prince in that regard.

I know words are wind, but Rhaegar did tell Jaime that he planned on changing things when he was done putting down the Rebellion. The question is though, how did he plan on doing this if Aerys was still alive? I don't think that the Kingsguard would have been agreeable towards Rhaegar forcing his father to step aside or killing him, maybe with the exception of Ser Arthur or Ser Jaime. So, how was Rhaegar going to change things?

Calling for a council may suggest that there was a legal process to remove a king.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know words are wind, but Rhaegar did tell Jaime that he planned on changing things when he was done putting down the Rebellion. The question is though, how did he plan on doing this if Aerys was still alive? I don't think that the Kingsguard would have been agreeable towards Rhaegar forcing his father to step aside or killing him, maybe with the exception of Ser Arthur or Ser Jaime. So, how was Rhaegar going to change things?

Aerys probably wouldn't have been in any physical danger if Rhaegar had carried out his coup. He would have been declared unfit to rule and allowed to live a carefully supervised but comfortable life, remaining the King in name but with his son actually ruling as Prince Regent. Ideally, this would have been sanctioned by a Great Council that included all the Lords Paramount. I'm pretty sure most of the Kingsguard would have seen the sense in that and stepped aside.

The problem was that Rhaegar left it too late, as he himself acknowledged, and ended up fighting and dying in defence of Aerys' regime against a justified rebellion. He was too concerned with prophecies (or love, or maybe both) and not enough with the here-and-now. This resulted in him provoking a political crisis and alienating several of the great lords whose support he would need for his coup. He then disappeared for a while, leaving his crazy father to deal with the mess he'd made, and then ended up having to fight on the wrong side (he should have been the leader of the anti-Aerys movement and it shouldn't have required a full-blown war).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Rhaegar was a rapist, but I think he was all kinds of reckless, narcissistic, and selfish (Lyanna, too). Disappearing with the daughter of one great house, betrothed to the lord of a second great house, while married to the daughter of a third great house, and leaving the kingdom in the hands of your violent schizophrenic father, is unjustifiable in every sense of the word.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty certain Rhaegar is one of the series more upstanding characters, the only person who seems to think of him as totally evil is Robert, everyone else admires him even in death (Ned quite secretly). I also agree that Ned may have lied to Robert about the rape story for the protection of Jon, it would add into Ned's shame about what he's done as it's tarnishing someone else's honour unduly. It all adds up to Ned putting aside what was the honourable thing to do for what was necessary for one of two times in his life due to a promise made to Lyanna.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I subscribe to the Don Quixote view of Rhaegar. He was mostly a equitable person, but he was out of touch with reality, causing him to do things that wouldn't make sense to anyone else, such as suddenly deciding to become a soldier and abducting Lyanna. I interpret Brandon's actions as those of a proud and rash overprotective brother, anxious to preserve the reputation of his house as much as his sister's welfare. While Lyanna doesn't appear to be enthusiastic about her match with Robert, she doesn't object to it either, which in an era of arranged marriages I would interpret as dutiful but melancholy acceptance.

Then, and remember she would still only be fourteen or fifteen at the time being sixteen when she died, Lyanna is abducted. It seems like Rhaegar kept her in isolation during the war, so there's a real possibility he was the only person she could talk to, and in that situation I think it's entirely possible for her to have developed Stockholm Syndrome and grown attached to her captor. While perhaps not as vindicating for some characters as many readers might like, I would say this matches GRRM's style better than the more extreme theories, as it leaves enough ambiguity not to dictate good or evil from on high.

Also, thank you for quoting the sections of the text you based your theories on, GreyDeLeon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think everyone is taking everything at face value, assuming that it all is what it seems. Could it be that Rhaeger's marriage to Elia is fake? If so, then he could have married Lyanna and fathered a child with her. Otherwise, if he was really married to Elia, then whatever child he fathered with Lyanna would be a bastard and could not be a prince. So that would mean he did it all for nothing. I think that why the crow calls Jon "King", because he is the only true heir.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just wondering: is there anyone else in the series but Robert who hates or at least disliked Rhaegar?

Not really, you could maybe say Varys who told Aerys about Harrenhal being a ploy by Rhaegar to remove his father from the throne. But that's not hatred of Rhaegar, just some scheming, and very interesting scheming for someone who 'serves the realm'.

I think everyone is taking everything at face value, assuming that it all is what it seems. Could it be that Rhaeger's marriage to Elia is fake? If so, then he could have married Lyanna and fathered a child with her. Otherwise, if he was really married to Elia, then whatever child he fathered with Lyanna would be a bastard and could not be a prince. So that would mean he did it all for nothing. I think that why the crow calls Jon "King", because he is the only true heir.

Rhaegar was married to Elia, that's given as solid fact. Acknowledged by everyone. And Targaryen's have practiced polygamy. What we 'know'

Targs have had multiple wives

Elia was Rhaegar's wife

Aegon was his heir

Jon became King after the sack of Kings Landing

So Rhaegar must have married Lyanna as well as Elia.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also lean toward the 'Rhaegar was not a rapist', camp, but I've got a crazy theory about him and Lyanna. I don't think they were in love (or at least that Rhaegar loved her). I think Rhaegar ran off with her with the intent to father another prophecy-child, as suggested by his words in the House of the Undying. I don't think he was in love with Lyanna, or with Elia - I think he was in the closet.

And I swear by the Seven that I thought so before Dance.

Just because he was bookish and introvert whatever, does not imply he is gay. Lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...