Faint Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Ser Daven seems to be the boss of the west at the moment. And he can ease himself into being the Lord if he only has Lancel to compete with him.Um, no, that would be Cersei Lannister. The Lady of Casterly Rock. And even if Cersei died, Daven is behind a long line of people:Tommen Baratheon (2nd son of Cersei, grandson of Tywin)Myrcella Baratheon (1st daughter of Cersei, granddaughter of Tywin)Martyn Lannister (3rd son of Kevan, grandson of Tytos)Janei Lannister (1st daughter of Kevan, granddaughter of Tytos)Tyrek Lannister (1st son of Tygett, grandson of Tytos)Genna Lannister (1st daughter of Tytos)Tywin Frey (1st son of Cleos, grandson of Genna, great-grandson of Tytos)Willem Frey (2nd son of Cleos, grandson of Genna, great-grandson of Tytos)Lyonel Frey (2nd son of Genna, grandson of Tytos)Walder Frey (4th son of Genna, grandson of Tytos)Daven Lannister (1st son of Stafford, great-nephew of Tytos, great-grandson of Tybolt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoros of Ders Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 We can affirm that Cersei is the heir to Casterly Rock, her children by blood would come in next in line but because of their relation to house Baratheon, Myrcella and Tommen lose claim to the Rock. This would then make Kevan Lannister the next heir in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 We can affirm that Cersei is the heir to Casterly Rock, her children by blood would come in next in line but because of their relation to house Baratheon, Myrcella and Tommen lose claim to the Rock. This would then make Kevan Lannister the next heir in line.That isn't necessarily the case. If Cersei were to die, and Tommen was still alive, then Myrcella would become of House Lannister much in the same way that Harry the Heir will become Harry Arryn when, and if, Sweet Robin dies.Nevertheless, this is probably all academic since Tommen and Myrcella seem set to die before their mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoned Dragon Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Well, isn't Tommen kind of excluded on the grounds that he has the rest of Westeros? Or am I missing something?That isn't necessarily the case. If Cersei were to die, and Tommen was still alive, then Myrcella would become of House Lannister much in the same way that Harry the Heir will become Harry Arryn when, and if, Sweet Robin dies.Nevertheless, this is probably all academic since Tommen and Myrcella seem set to die before their mother.Actually, I think there is a misunderstanding about the inheritance. Girls come last no matter how old they are, which is why Cercei comes after Jaime and Tyrion even though she was born first. If Cercei dies, Myrcella won't become the Lady of the Rock - Tommen does - even if he is still King. Now, if he wants he can "divest" the Crown of the lands and title, and "bestow" them on whomever he wants.This is why Robert wasn't also a Stormlord at the same time he was King, it's because he "divested" it from the crown and gave it to Renly. In England, Prince Philip is only the Duke of Edinburgh because the peerage had reverted to the crown at some point and Queen Elizabeth divested it onto Philip. Recently, the Queen has decided that when Prince Philip dies the title won't revert back to the crown, but be passed to her other son. When Cercei dies, the title "Lord of the Rock" will pass to Tommen - and, because he is King and (presumably) any kings after him will also be part Baratheon - the title reverts to the Crown.If Myrcella wants to be Lady of Casterly Rock or (since Tommen has also inherited the Stormlands now that Stannis is a traitor and Renly is dead without issue) Lady of the Stormlands, then she needs to hope Tommen is feeling generous...which, considering he loves stamping things, prolly means she'd get it.......if she wasn't already a Princess of Dorne. It's doubtful her brother's council would divest the crown and give Myrcella so much power in the South.[EDIT: Although, thinking about it now, it seems really clear that the real reason the Targaryans were vulnerable to insurrection in the first place was because they typically only married one another. Ideally, what was supposed to happen with the seven kingdoms was for the Targaryans to sufficiently marry enough kingdoms to keep the others bound to them completely. Preferably, it would work out like it did with Elizabeth I and James VI - she died, crown passed to her cousin who brings Scotland into the realm. Do that six times (since it already worked with Dorne) and everything would have been a little better.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garlan Marius Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Tommen Baratheon (2nd son of Cersei, grandson of Tywin)Myrcella Baratheon (1st daughter of Cersei, granddaughter of Tywin)One cannot simultaneously be king and hold other lands in Westeros. Hence Renly became Lord of Storm's End despite that being Robert's birthright as firstborn son of Steffon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Isn't much of this discussion academic? Tommen and Myrcella will not outlive their mother. The more important questions is who inherits after them and whether Janei Lannister could claim over Tyrek Lannister. Personally, I don't think so. That means the fate of Martyn Lannister becomes all the more important in whatever plans Varys has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolene Brown Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I don't see why Janei couldn't claim over Tyrek. It seems to me it goes: Kevans' sons, then Kevan's daughter, then Tygett's son, then Genna's sons, then her daughters (if she had any, I don't think she does). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Manhood-Eating Goat Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Cersei's children will die, we know this. She is the Lady of Casterly Rock.Personally I'd be surprised if who rules the major houses is an issue by the time Tommen and Myrcella have died, never mind if Cersei dies.All we know in regards to this thread is that it wont be Lancel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I don't see why Janei couldn't claim over Tyrek. It seems to me it goes: Kevans' sons, then Kevan's daughter, then Tygett's son, then Genna's sons, then her daughters (if she had any, I don't think she does).I don't know; it's an interesting question. Janei Lannister is two years old. Tyrek Lannister is fifteen. Practically speaking, I don't think she would claim over Tyrek even if her father is senior to Tyrek's father. I'm not even sure she could get the kind of support she would need. Her mother is a Swyft. Tyrek's mother is a Marbrand. Needless to say, House Marbrand is much more powerful than House Swyft.Finally, no need to beat around the bush here, girls within the setting of the story are hardly ever given their just allocation of the inheritance. Cersei, after all, is older than both Jaime and Tyrion yet it took a series of peculiar circumstances to make it so that she inherited Casterly Rock.So if there is any male with almost as good a claim as the female, the male almost certainly wins (especially in this case where the female is a two year old). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolene Brown Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Cercei's situation is totally different. Jaime and Tyrion are supposed to inherit ahead of her by the laws of Westeros inheritance. They come from the same parents. She was not being treated unfairly by Westeros laws.By the laws of Westeros inheritance, Janei should be ahead of Tyrek because Kevan's line has to be gone through completely before they look to Tygett's line. There is no justification for jumping Tyrek ahead of her. That would be unfair. However, it is true, that with Kevan dead, she may have difficulty in claiming her rights, if it came to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Um, no, that would be Cersei Lannister. The Lady of Casterly Rock. And even if Cersei died, Daven is behind a long line of people:She's too busy being the Regent /Hand / de facto Queen, whether the crown is well served by her presence or not.She'll never give up that power to be merely ruling Casterly Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 By the laws of Westeros inheritance, Janei should be ahead of Tyrek because Kevan's line has to be gone through completely before they look to Tygett's line. There is no justification for jumping Tyrek ahead of her. That would be unfair. However, it is true, that with Kevan dead, she may have difficulty in claiming her rights, if it came to that.I'm not really disputing the legality of her position but, the fact of the matter is, it would be unlikely for her to claim ahead of her cousin given their respective positions.She's too busy being the Regent /Hand / de facto Queen, whether the crown is well served by her presence or not.She'll never give up that power to be merely ruling Casterly Rock.I don't think you quite get it; she is the ruler of Casterly Rock right now and has been so since her father died. She appointed Damien Lannister as her castellan in her absence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolene Brown Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I'm not really disputing the legality of her position but, the fact of the matter is, it would be unlikely for her to claim ahead of her cousin given their respective positions.At the moment? Tyrek is missing, so her position is a lot stronger than he is. If he turns up, how will he even be able to prove he is who he says he is? His position may be very weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 At the moment? Tyrek is missing, so her position is a lot stronger than he is. If he turns up, how will he even be able to prove he is who he says he is? His position may be very weak.Tyrek isn't Aegon; every Lannister has seen him at age 14 -- I trust he won't look too different one year later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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