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FacelessDude

Shae and Tywin?

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My first thought was that she was just a whore all along and she never really gave a damn about Tyrion, actually this is what I thought since she spoke at his trial. But now as I go into the beginning of the next book and people cannot stop talking about how badly Tywin's body smells and he seems to be decomposing very rapidly. So now I'm thinking could she have been there to poison Tywin and the poison is causing his body to break down much faster than it would normally?

I hadn't thought about that but there was obviously something going on with him, physically. I had wondered if he had been poisoned or had cancer, but I never thought about Shae being the one that had poisoned him.

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I could believe that Varys would set this up, but the way it actually played out makes it seem unlikely.

My thought now is that Tywin was not only screwing Shae but set her up from the beginning to keep any eye on Tyrion. Its all about who you can trust. He cant trust Cersei and Joffrey or any of the council. Thats pretty much why he sent Tyrion to be hand anyway. However, somebody has to watch Tyrion.

I thought it was a bit of a noble gesture that Tywin came around on Tyrion and realized he was smart and sent him off to be hand. But Tywin is an a-hole. If Tyrion is to be his eyes and mouth amongst the Kings Landing folk, then the only one who can keep an eye on him is someone outside of that group. Tywin knows Tyrions one big weekness. Hopeing someone will love him and not care about his defects. My guess is he had been screwing Shae in the battle camp and decided she was a good enough actress to send to Tyrion.

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And there is speculation that the secret tunnel that leads to the brothel was built for him - expanding just how much a hypocrite he may very well be.

Which we were also told through Varys, right? If so, I feel inclined to question the truth of it.

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Ok so just finished the part where Tyrion kills Shae. Tyrion found Shae sleeping in the Hands part of the castle (now occupied by Tywin). So did Shae sleep with Tywin? She had his necklace on and everything.

I know to seems like "duh, she was naked, in his bed!!!". But I just wanted to clarify it.

yes she was sleeping with him!! twin actually loved whores but didnt want to be seen as weak as his father so he covered it up!! varys says the secret entrance in chataya's was made for a former hand of the king (tywin) so he wouldnt be shamed! tywins also the father of sweet donnel hill of the nights watch who claims to be a bastard of a lannister

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There are two schools of thought on this. Yes Tywin slept with Shae and no, it was all a set up by Varys to make sure that Tyrion killed Tywin.

Both are quite nice in a way as depending on your view you can then either have Tywin as a self-righteous hypocrite or Varys as a vicious schemer.

I really like the way you put it, totally agree. How about another theory into the cauldron... It would seem that Cersei had the most influence on Shae. It was in Cersei's desire to get rid of Tyrion which is why Shae was such a wonderful resource, but what about her desire to get rid of her unsatisfied, controling, and lastly by today's and Cersei's standards -- sexist. Could Shae have been used as a set up by Cersei? :o

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I kind of like the idea that Cersei was behind it. But I think that would require too much explaining. I can't help but think it just would come off as too convaluted to make sense.

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I don't really get the sense from any of Cersei's POVs that she sees Tywin as a man who sleeps with prostitutes...she worries too much about how her father views her, and she takes too much trouble with hiding things from him. Just my opinion...

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Well I heard Varys is all out for the Targaryen's, not the realm like he says.

Actually, how i see it is, Varys believes that Aegon (fake/real) is the best hope for the Realm and he truly believes they've groomed him up to be the king the Realm needs. Maybe he isnt pro-Targ as people think,but still pro realm.

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Does Tyrion kill Shea?! I thought he only killed Tywin

Does Tyrion kill Shea?! I thought he only killed Tywin

Yes he does. I highly recommend that you do a re-reading!

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Can someone refresh me on Tysha?

The way I remember it, she was betrothed to him and he was in love and she was happy and then suddenly they told him she was just a whore and took her away.... but she wasn't.... And what exactly did he do to make Tywin/Jaime do that to him???

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Tyrion didnt "do" anything. Tywin essentially did not want Tyrion to marry a lady below their standing, and thus the course of events that happened. The fact that Tywin hated Tyrion obviously helped. And also, Tywin believed it would serve as a lesson to Tyrion and make him a man.

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Tyrion didnt "do" anything. Tywin essentially did not want Tyrion to marry a lady below their standing, and thus the course of events that happened. The fact that Tywin hated Tyrion obviously helped. And also, Tywin believed it would serve as a lesson to Tyrion and make him a man.

Oh. Wow.... Poor Tyrion....

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You could see the betrayal coming (she is a whore) but with twyin, whore hater? Really didnt see that one coming

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Probably nothing that's been unsaid but from the Book it seemed like Varys was reluctant for Tyrion to leave the path and find out where the entrance to the Tower of the Hand and Tywin's room was, think there's quotes which convey his shock and disapproval. Of course he is a very good actor and master of deception so he could easily have been pretending at this point too. :unsure:

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How come Tyrion 'knew' his father would be dropping the doo doo butter at 3 in the morning? He knows too much about his family's personal going-ons.

There is a strong Theory that Oberyn the Red Viper poisoned Tywin. There are many clues pointing to this

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Eventhough its difficult to see past Varys' involvement, I honestly think its 'as written' on this occasion. Jaime set the Imp free as payment for what happened to his 1st wife. After meeting spiderman (epic spoiler? lol)and finding a way to sneak up on the Hand, caught his ex in dads bed and done what most deformed, egomaniac, vengeful dwarfs would do! Kill em both in cold-blood!

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Yeah due to Varys being renound in the series as a 'Master of whispers' with all his 'little birds' and generally being ITK (for the sports fans lol) it's difficult to see past that he conveniently happened to be found in the bit of the tunnels by the dungeons where and at the same time that Tyrion was released by Jaime. To me he didn't seem massively convincing that he didn't want Tyrion to go up there and he knew what he'd do. Maybe he plotted with Jaime? All conjecture though haha :worried:

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