Robert Strong

[Babeldygob]

Well, I've just read AFFC again so the part with the gravedigger is pretty fresh. When Brienne arrives at the Quiet Isle there's a horse in the stable that is clearly the Hound's horse, Stranger. This is later confirmed by the Elder Brother. She also sees a very big man digging a grave on two occasions, she describes him as if he's limping(The Hound's biggest and mortal wound was his leg, Arya bound all the wounds up and she remarked on that wound smelling 'funny'). The Elder Brother later tells Brienne how he found the Hound and how he died and then buried him. Then he proceeds with telling a story about himself 'dying' in some battle whereafter he became a brother. He talks a lot about him dying(he is obviously talking about his persona and the person he was) with those exact words that it is reasonable for us to believe that when he refers to the Hound as 'that man died under a tree' that he is just referring to the man the Hound used to be. Other people around the Quiet Isle also mention a lot that the Elder Brother has exceptional healing skills. Also when Brienne first sees the gravedigger Septon Meribald's dog 'Dog' seems to like the gravedigger and goes to him, then the gravedigger pets him gently and also seems fond of Dog. This is a big hint in my opinion. Brienne also never gets a good look at the gravedigger, so she mostly sees his back, which would explain why she didn't remark on his burned face, which would be hidden from her.

We can assume that this means that the Elder Brother found the Hound near death(Arya refused to give him 'mercy') and he healed him with his exceptional healing skills. However, since the Hound had such a near-death experience it changed him. Therefor 'the Hound' died, but Sandor lives. The description of the gravedigger fits the Hound and there are too many hints and a lot of emphasis in that chapter on The Hound and the gravedigger for the gravedigger to just be a gravedigger.

After reading the chapter again it seemed very clear to me that the gravedigger is The Hound. Whether he has become pious or he's still just healing from his wound seems unclear.

Back on topic. Robert Strong needs to win his fight and I don't want The Hound to die so I don't want them to fight at the trial but maybe later.

[Silent_Hero]

Well, I've just read AFFC again so the part with the gravedigger is pretty fresh. When Brienne arrives at the Quiet Isle there's a horse in the stable that is clearly the Hound's horse, Stranger. This is later confirmed by the Elder Brother. She also sees a very big man digging a grave on two occasions, she describes him as if he's limping(The Hound's biggest and mortal wound was his leg, Arya bound all the wounds up and she remarked on that wound smelling 'funny'). The Elder Brother later tells Brienne how he found the Hound and how he died and then buried him. Then he proceeds with telling a story about himself 'dying' in some battle whereafter he became a brother. He talks a lot about him dying(he is obviously talking about his persona and the person he was) with those exact words that it is reasonable for us to believe that when he refers to the Hound as 'that man died under a tree' that he is just referring to the man the Hound used to be. Other people around the Quiet Isle also mention a lot that the Elder Brother has exceptional healing skills. Also when Brienne first sees the gravedigger Septon Meribald's dog 'Dog' seems to like the gravedigger and goes to him, then the gravedigger pets him gently and also seems fond of Dog. This is a big hint in my opinion. Brienne also never gets a good look at the gravedigger, so she mostly sees his back, which would explain why she didn't remark on his burned face, which would be hidden from her.

We can assume that this means that the Elder Brother found the Hound near death(Arya refused to give him 'mercy') and he healed him with his exceptional healing skills. However, since the Hound had such a near-death experience it changed him. Therefor 'the Hound' died, but Sandor lives. The description of the gravedigger fits the Hound and there are too many hints and a lot of emphasis in that chapter on The Hound and the gravedigger for the gravedigger to just be a gravedigger.

After reading the chapter again it seemed very clear to me that the gravedigger is The Hound. Whether he has become pious or he's still just healing from his wound seems unclear.

Back on topic. Robert Strong needs to win his fight and I don't want The Hound to die so I don't want them to fight at the trial but maybe later.

Don't forget the Gravedigger is described as being huge and just as tall as Breinne, if I remember correctly Grrm stated Breinne was just as tall as Sandor..... Hmm.

Ser Robert Strong will fight Ser Loras or Lancel

Then kill him. Then Cersei finds out about Sansa so she sends Strong after her only for Jamie/Sandor to stop him.

[Prince of the North]

The 'armored like the sun, golden and beautiful' figure in that vision could also refer to Oberyn Martell. It is unlikely that Robert Strong's helmet is literally flowing with black blood - i.e. the vision isn't a literal one where the Hound and the 'golden figure' will necessarily face off against the 'stone giant'. Bran may simply be having a "montage" of sorts of various significant figures in future events.

This doesn't disprove the Jaime/Hound-vs-Gregor idea of course, but it's far from a sure thing. Though such a fight when all three combatants were in their heyday would have been a truly awesome sight to behold.

Yeah, I'm quite certain the warriors described in that vision are Oberyn Martell, Sandor Clegane, and Gregor Clegane. I believe the reason Gregor Clegane is said to "loom over" the other two is because both Sandor and Oberyn absolutely lived for revenge on Gregor. Gregor Clegane did not loom over Jaime Lannister in any way. Gregor was his father Tywin's attack dog, nothing more.

Also, I believe Sandor is the gravedigger on the Quiet Isle and that Robert Strong is the reanimated body of his brother Gregor by Qyburn. I think it's precisely because Sandor no longer lives for revenge on his brother that he'll ultimately be the one to face and destroy the monster that he's become (and that's really saying something considering what a monster he was while alive). In fact, I believe at least some of Sandor's motivation in facing Robert Strong will be a desire to actually free his brother from his undeath.

[Ida]

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Yeah, I'm quite certain the warriors described in that vision are Oberyn Martell, Sandor Clegane, and Gregor Clegane. I believe the reason Gregor Clegane is said to "loom over" the other two is because both Sandor and Oberyn absolutely lived for revenge on Gregor. Gregor Clegane did not loom over Jaime Lannister in any way. Gregor was his father Tywin's attack dog, nothing more.

I find it hard to believe that warrior described in the vision is Oberyn Martell.

Yes he did kill the living Gregor Clegane, that is true - but the description sounds more like Jaime Lannister.

Jaime Lannister is more connected with the Stark children than Oberyn Martell is/were.

Jaime stayed at Winterfell, tried to kill Bran and sends Brienne out on a rerscue mission to find Sansa. He at least have a connection to the Stark children.

Oberyn Martell killed Gregor Clegane, and died. We don`t even know if he has any connection to the Starks whatsoever before his death, and he will probably not have any connection with them after his death. I don`t find that theory plausible.

It is perfectly ok to disagree - I would say that is when a discussion would get interesting, because then differents thoughts and reflections would be revealed.

I do agree with you that the other characters in the vision must be the Hound and the undead Gregor Clegane/ Robert Strong :thumbsup:

[Prince of the North]

Yes, it is perfectly alright to disagree. After all, none of us will actually know what's right concerning these theories until Martin tells us ;)

However, I'm curious why you seem to dismiss my point about how The Mountain looms over both Sandor and Oberyn while he does not loom over Jaime in any way. Also, why do you think it has something to do with a connection to the Stark kids? Because it's Bran who sees the vision?

Finally, we have another prophecy in which I'm confident Quentin Martell is described as being the Sun's Son and in the vision we're discussing a warrior that is described as being armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Combine those two descriptions with the fact that the Martell's sigil is a sun (pierced by a spear) and, yes, I don't think that's coincidence. The two people who lived for revenge on Gregor Clegane are Sandor Clegane and Oberyn Martell. Hence, he could be seen to be looming over them.

[John Reynolds]

Finally, we have another prophecy in which I'm confident Quentin Martell is described as being the Sun's Son and in the vision we're discussing a warrior that is described as being armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Combine those two descriptions with the fact that the Martell's sigil is a sun (pierced by a spear) and, yes, I don't think that's coincidence. The two people who lived for revenge on Gregor Clegane are Sandor Clegane and Oberyn Martell. Hence, he could be seen to be looming over them.

I think it's a reasonable interpretation you've written. The more I think about it the more I think it'll be the Hound as the Faith's champion against Cersei (and they're not stupid, they know she's guilty as all seven hells).

[Ida]

Yes, it is perfectly alright to disagree. After all, none of us will actually know what's right concerning these theories until Martin tells us ;)

However, I'm curious why you seem to dismiss my point about how The Mountain looms over both Sandor and Oberyn while he does not loom over Jaime in any way. Also, why do you think it has something to do with a connection to the Stark kids? Because it's Bran who sees the vision?

Finally, we have another prophecy in which I'm confident Quentin Martell is described as being the Sun's Son and in the vision we're discussing a warrior that is described as being armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Combine those two descriptions with the fact that the Martell's sigil is a sun (pierced by a spear) and, yes, I don't think that's coincidence. The two people who lived for revenge on Gregor Clegane are Sandor Clegane and Oberyn Martell. Hence, he could be seen to be looming over them.

Here is the the quote from the book, of Brans vision:

He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was as dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

Maybe I am being way too litteral here, but I connect the vision to Sansa and Arya because in the vision, the shadows are being described as being all around them. We know for a fact that the Hound have a connection to both Sansa and Arya, so I therefor presume that the two other shadows probably have a connection to the girls all well.

Being very litteral again, Jaime Lannister are being described as beautiful at countless occations, with the golden hair and armor. The sun could also be another way to the describe his golden and fair complexions. The gold is also a color that is connected to the Lannisters.

Jaime is also the one that I see have a connection with the girls, not Oberyn Martell.

I have presumed that the shadows in the vision have a connection to Sansa and Arya, or else why the reason for seeing the other shadow all around them?

It is understandable that it would be Oberyn Martell, if the the two other shadows would not have any connection to Sansa and Arya, because of their final battle. But I don`t get it why they are seen in a vision as shadows that are all around the Stark girls.

I am being litteral again when I think that the Mountain looms over everybody else as both inclined to his massive size and perhaps as being a threat. He is a big and mean killing machine, well known for his hatred and cruelties.

Is that stretching it too far or does it have even the slightest credibility? :rolleyes:

[Prince of the North]

Is that stretching it too far or does it have even the slightest credibility? :rolleyes:

Of course, your interpretation has credibility. I've never said it didn't and I've explained my interpretation.

I see exactly where you are coming from. It's just that I'm not so ready to think the vision necessarily means everything has to have a connection to Sansa, Arya, Bran, etc. You'll notice that in Bran's vision it doesn't say looming over them all, it says looming over them both (i.e. the "hound-faced" warrior and the warrior "armored like the sun"). You see, I think it's those three, the three warriors described that are connected and not necessarily anything else. Also, the description "armored like the sun" combined with Oberyn's and Sandor's mutual hatred of Gregor are what lead me to believe it's Oberyn and not Jaime in the vision. As I've said before, I think Gregor looms over Oberyn and Sandor because of their desire for revenge on him and not simply due to the fact that Gregor is literally taller than anyone else :)

[Ida]

Of course, your interpretation has credibility. I've never said it didn't and I've explained my interpretation.

I see exactly where you are coming from. It's just that I'm not so ready to think the vision necessarily means everything has to have a connection to Sansa, Arya, Bran, etc. You'll notice that in Bran's vision it doesn't say looming over them all, it says looming over them both (i.e. the "hound-faced" warrior and the warrior "armored like the sun"). You see, I think it's those three, the three warriors described that are connected and not necessarily anything else. Also, the description "armored like the sun" combined with Oberyn's and Sandor's mutual hatred of Gregor are what lead me to believe it's Oberyn and not Jaime in the vision. As I've said before, I think Gregor looms over Oberyn and Sandor because of their desire for revenge on him and not simply due to the fact that Gregor is literally taller than anyone else :)

I can definately see where you are coming from as well.

If the vision in fact is not connected with Sansa and Arya, then it could be very possible that the shadow armored like the sun could be Oberyn Martell. Martell and the Mountan have a very clear connection due to the fact that they actually killed each other.

Thats the thing with GRRM, there are so many hints, suggestions and signs - that up to the reader to figure out.

But it is very interesting to read and reflect over the different views and interpretations :)

[GentlemanBastard]

Also, I agree with a few previous posters, the Faith would be fools to allow one of there men to fight against Strong. I'm sure they know what's up, or at least have some idea. So if they don't allow her trial by combat, then what will happen?

Not if a reformed hound from the quiet isle gets leave from the elder brother to engage in a righteous bout of kinslaying

[Freddard]

I believe the real question here is: How did Qyburn do this? What happens to Robert Strong if Qyburn is harmed?

since Robert Strong is being somehow controlled by Qyburn (this is the popular belief as I noted from everyone's posts) the puppet master behind all this is actually the ex-maester IMO....

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

Robbert Strong is almost definitely Gregor without a head, because the headless thing will make an awesomely shocking reveal. I think the purpose of the other prisoners was experimentation so Qyburn could get his black magic tricks just right for Gregorstein. But regardless of who he is made out of, Gregorstein will win. Cercei is coming back, this time as a full-on Evil Queen complete with dark magic at her side.

I also think Grgorstein is being controlled by Qyburn and that killing Qyburn is the only way to end Gregorstein. Qyburn will be very cautious,so I think it will be a stealth kill, by Varys or Arya. Maybe Arya will save Jaime by ending Gregorstein rather than the other way around.

[thunder_chicken]

I can see Robert Strong being invincible in combat, especially one-on-one trial combat. I wonder if Sandor will kill him with fire- that would be a fitting revenge for having Gregor burn him as a child. Perhaps someone important will seek refuge on the Quiet Isle (Sansa?), Cercei will find out, and send Robert Strong to kill/capture this person. I'm less inclined to think now that Sandor will become a warrior for the faith and travel to King's Landing.

[GentlemanBastard]

Robbert Strong is almost definitely Gregor without a head, because the headless thing will make an awesomely shocking reveal. I think the purpose of the other prisoners was experimentation so Qyburn could get his black magic tricks just right for Gregorstein. But regardless of who he is made out of, Gregorstein will win. Cercei is coming back, this time as a full-on Evil Queen complete with dark magic at her side.

I also think Grgorstein is being controlled by Qyburn and that killing Qyburn is the only way to end Gregorstein. Qyburn will be very cautious,so I think it will be a stealth kill, by Varys or Arya. Maybe Arya will save Jaime by ending Gregorstein rather than the other way around.

In all honesty I'm pretty sure the faith will hold a revealed headless Strong to be an abomination in the eyes of gods and men. Which probably means the faith will deem the trial by combat null and void. Which pretty much means Cersei and Qyburn would have to exterminate the faith to get out alive. Since the faith went all inquisition in a feast for crows I don't think forgiveness for tarnishing another holy rite will be forgiven (since tywin and the freys already shit all over guest right). What's more Cersei will become even more hated by the commons. You know.... the more i type the more i think that you might be right. Varys killed Kevan to make sure Cersei keeps ruining the country.... So I guess :agree:

[thunder_chicken]

I can picture a split in the Faith if Cercei tries to replace another Head Septon. I got the distinct feeling GRRM was setting them up to be some sort of uncontrolled militia that was going to get in the way of everyones plans.

[Lady Lea]

The most popular theory is that Robert Strong is Ser Gregor. But is it Ser Gregor without his head? If so, whose head is on Gregor's body??? Just a random one?

I'm asking because of the theory on reddit that says it could actually be Robb Stark's head (Robb -> Robert. And Strong is, apparently, the German translation for Stark). They did cut off Robb's head, and we don't know what happened to it.

[sholtzma]

A man can cast more than one shadow. I believe the golden armored warrior and the hound warrior are both Sandor. This is also in keeping with the fact that Sandor would be better suited to fight Gregor not out of hatred or revenge, but by defending others or by serving the Faith.

I am also really interested in Arya's experience with putting on faces in ADWD - I wonder if Sandor lost his burned face (his flesh that Elder Brother claimed to have buried) and there's something else under there. I'm not expecting someone beautiful, but someone that doesn't appear so tortured would be nice.....I am so looking forward to seeing his character again. Whatever turns out will be entertaining!

[Jolene Brown]

At the point Bran has that dream, Jaime has been very strongly associated with golden armor and shining like the sun - I feel pretty confident that it is him. Which is interesting, since at this point in the series, we have never really seen the Hound and Jaime linked at all, so it implies strongly that this is something that will happen in the future, hopefully offering some hints to how the BWB/Jaime/Quiet Isle locations will tie together, or at least to the fact that they will tie together.

[Axewolf]

The most popular theory is that Robert Strong is Ser Gregor. But is it Ser Gregor without his head? If so, whose head is on Gregor's body??? Just a random one?

I'm asking because of the theory on reddit that says it could actually be Robb Stark's head (Robb -> Robert. And Strong is, apparently, the German translation for Stark). They did cut off Robb's head, and we don't know what happened to it.

If this turns out to actually happen Would be a right kick In the teeth for Jon if he ever faced strong would definitely be a Interesting fight!

[JonTargaryenW/Viserion4WIN]

Many on this thread are arguing whether the golden armored individual in Bran's dream is Oberyn or Jaime, but almost everyone agrees that the hound faced person is Sandor, except me.

Think about every time Sandor has been mentioned as having a hound's head. It was mostly in reference to his helm right? But he doesn't have it anymore. Last we saw it was being worn by Rorge (or Biter, not sure) in Brienne's PoV. I think Brienne is the hound warrior and Jaime is the golden one. The two of them have just met up again and presumably Brienne is leading Jaime to his trial by Lady Stoneheart. Many on these boards have speculated that Jaime's arc is not over and that he has some unfinished business (killing Cersei, finding Sansa etc). I think that the two of them, having already been in cooperation before, will join forces again to stop Gregor/Robert Strong.

I don't have much in the way of evidence but considering that Brienne and Jaime's arcs have involved saving/finding the Stark girls, I think that corresponds to Bran's dream.

They presumably killed the outlaws at the inn when Brienne had her face ripped off and I assume someone grabbed the Hound's helm. Brienne also has a "terrible face" now that half of it is missing.

My money is on the prophecy/dream not being fulfilled yet and we will see the three warriors in some scrap over one or more of the Stark girls.