How would you rate episode 206?

[House Snow]

I'm watching the wire now and while its a great show it avoids the criticism b/c its a cool gangster show and not a fantasy show. The truth is there are so many things that happen in the Wire that are ridiculous and completely unbelievable even moreso that GOT, but the genre gives it a shield of armor. I mean Omar alone is the most impossible and ridiculous character ever. If you put a broadsword in his hand and not a shotgun people would see this.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

Could anyone blame Ygritte for snuggling up next to Jon? What girl (or gay guy) wouldn't in that situation?! lol He's just plain dreamy...

[Chelly]

This is my favorite of the season so far and I have the feeling the next coming episodes are going to be even better. Just a slight nitpick...I don't know why they need to put the Wall when Jon and company are not at the Wall. I was really looking forward to seeing some beyond the wall map action. Maybe some Fist of the First Men or something....oh, well.

Great epi, I gave a 10. A lot of good stuff here.

[Incesticide]

Well, props to you if you stick with it. But I doubt it.

I doubt that too, to be perfectly honest. I'll probably watch the episodes anyway eventually - if only for the good scenes - but I won't be doing it religiously, won't call myself a "fan" anymore, nor will I be recommending the series anywhere near as wholeheartedly as I used to (or if I do it will be with a massive disclaimer). Not that I'm perfectly happy with the books either, as in there's some minor things I would have written differently, but I can always re-read them and let my imagination go wild.

You, Incesticide, are a gentleman and a scholar.

You flatter me, ser. :P

Regarding the popularity of the changes, take this episode. It is arguably the least faithful to the books so far, but even so the majority of non-book readers in other forums seem to think it's the best episode of the season. Also, the fact that the 75% of the voters in this thread (the majority of which I would assume are book readers) have given it a score between 8 and 10 also speaks volume to the depth of this episode's success.

That would generally be true except that every episode has been given a score that's heavily skewed towards a value between an 8 or a 10.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Incesticide

[Leto Atreides]

That was one of the worst epsiode of season 2 so far IMHO.

First of all, why is this episode called "The Old Gods and the New"? There was nothing related to religions or gods in that episode.

The scene where Jon Snow chases Ygritte was competely unnecessary.

The riot in King's Landing looked really cheap and made it look like the dock and the red keep were just 100 feet away from one another. The mob holding the septon's severed leg in the air was laughable. Tyrion being mad a Joffrey didn't make sense either as the boy didn't actually provoke the crowd on the show as he did in the book. At least there was FINALLY some interaction between the Hound and Sansa.

Tywin is way to nice to Arya...this is getting ridiculous.

Daenerys' scenes were as terrible as ever. I'm getting really tired of hearing her make empty threats while acting like a spoiled little girl.

Also, is there one location in Westeros where Peter Bealish isn't? I was almost expecting him to show up in Winterfell to have a chat with Theon.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Leto Atreides

[Lord Barristan]

Omar is based off of real life people. Even in season 5 when he jumps out of a 5th story building and survives - that actually happened. The guy who is with Omar was the Omar of real life and he jumped out of a 5th story building during a shoot out and lived

Quite frankly I don't know what you're talking about.... I'm from Baltimore and 95% of the stuff that goes down in the show is based on real life

[Lord Barristan]

I suggest you read David Simons books The Corner and Homicide and realize that the wire is as realistic as a show comes... Or come to Baltimore And see what it's like. I'll take you down to the west side and see if you come away alive

Honestly you're comments are laughable

[The Knight of Flours]

A 7 for this one which - for me - is the lowest mark of any this series. Think it would probably be the lowest ever actually.

Not too much wrong with this episode but just seemed to be something missing for me,

Anyway if the worst an episode of a show can rate is 7/10, they can't be doing too much wrong.

[Heathered]

Why? That was one of the defining moments for that character - at that age, to be sent away from her family and to not show emotion at it? Instead of changing into a Princess not just in name, she remains a child.. Did I care about this change specifically, not really - Myrcella has always been "meh" to me, but I always ask when I see changes of this natuer, why make this change? Why not just have her not cry? It doesn't lengthen the scene, cost any more, bring in any other characters. Why not just leave it as it is?

Because by making Myrcella cry, the writers are foreshadowing later events. And you have seen that the writers like to set the stage for future events, i.e., the sympathy for Theon. Also, it may be foreshadowing the fact that Myrcella never sees her family again. As of the fifth book, Myrcella still hasn't returned to King's Landing. I read in an interview that Martin gives the producers a heads up on certain things. Maybe they know something we don't.

[GSP]

Gave it a nine.

A lot going on from the book that was well portrayed imho. A couple diversions from the books, but in a good for a tv series way.

[The Anti-Targ]

I do find the 1/2/3 ratings curious. These ratings mean not only is it poor adaptation of the books but objectively bad TV all around putting all gripes about book adaptation aside. I fail to see how anyone can call GoT total rubbish, especialy from people who like the genre and are OK with sex and violence in their reading material.

For myself, I could see rating a bad episode of GoT 4/10 (this one I rate well above that). Generally bad, but there will always be good elements, even if it's just the actors making the best of a bad script. I'll always enjoy Peter Dinklage's chracterisation of Tyrion. Maise, Jack and Sophie never disappoint in their characterisation of Arya, Joff and Sansa. Quality actors will always raise any screenplay above the level of abysmal.

I think the annoying elements of this show can be largely overlooked as I donlt think they have major impacts on the characters' developments, aside from Jon possibly. I initially gave the show an 8, but on reflection I would change it to a 7 if I could, but I'm OK with leaving it at 8. I fear next week's show may drop to a 6 if Jon's story line ends up where it appears to be heading.

[Ghost of Crackclaw]

Perfectly cromulent all the way up to the end. Better by far than last week. A few nitpicks (save the end), but also some very tense scenes and fantastic acting.

Alfie Allen, you have won my heart.

Despite being a horrific departure from the books, Charles Dance and Maesie Williams are milking their scenes for all they're worth. Fantastic.

I'm sure the San-San shippers nearly soiled their clothes tonight. Still a well done scene--the entirety of it. But I had to poke the bear. ;-)

But...really, Jaqen & Arry? I mean, it was mostly harmless, but really?

Nice work doing the groundwork for Jeyne, Cat's speech included. The non-readers won't know what hit them.

OK, now for my rant:

Dany is not a victim. D&D seem to think they're better writers than GRRM. This is false. Making her prone to thievery strips her of all agency; now she's just a tool. I'm so fuschia-ing angry about the last scene. Wrong, false, bad. Indefensible.

Which is why I only gave it the 8 instead of a 9.

[Patchface Is AA Reborn]

I gave this episode an 8. For Hilarity sake I hope episode 9 that George wrote himself deviates the most from the novels of any episode to date. The angry tears on this board will be delicious

Edited May 8, 2012 by Patchface Is AA Reborn

[A Dark And Stormy Knight]

Having done some Shakespeare before, I tend to approach the show versus the books the way I approach Shakespeare's plays versus their source materials. The historical Macbeth was totally different from Shakespeare's Macbeth. HBO-Shae is very different from book-Shae. Even HBO-Theon, much as I ADORE the character, is sorta different from book-Theon in a lot of ways. But both source and adaptation tell good stories about interesting characters. Just as Shakespeare would take a pre-existing chronicle and tweak it (often to a degree historical 'purists' would consider outrageous) to make it into fine drama, so D&D are taking ASOIAF and tweaking it to make fine television. And while in the back of my mind I know that the tweaks are not canon, are not 'historical' in the context of the history of Westeros as outlined by GRRM, I just don't think in terms of blind adherence to fact when approaching an adaptation of anything anymore. I guess I've already sort of come to terms with the fact that inaccurate adaptations can also simultaneously be rollicking good ones - and compared to Shakespeare, this show hardly qualifies as inaccurate to begin with.

A slight tangent, but I just thought I'd throw my two cents in.

Edited May 8, 2012 by A Dark And Stormy Knight

[Puzzle]

I gave it a solid 9. I rather liked most of the deviations from the books; it kept me constantly guessing and I liked it.

I had to knock off a point for killing Irri though. I know some people don't understand why others are making such a big fuss, but I really did not like that particular change. Irri seemed to be Dany's last connection to the Dothraki who was a recognisable face from last season, with Rakharo killed off, Doreah not actually being a Dothraki and Jhiqui just missing. Also, she was killed off screen, so they obviously did not do it for the dramatic impact, which leaves me wondering what purpose her death served.

Other than that, I loved it. The winterfell scene at the beginning really had me misty eyed, anf the acting was spot on. I also really enjoyed Ygritte. She was neither here nor there for me in the books, but I'm really looking forward to more of her in the show though.

[Red Raven]

I gave it a 9.

I rather liked most of the deviations from the books; it kept me constantly guessing and I liked it.

Agreed, Tywin and Arya were my favorite moments of the episode. I wondered how they were going to handle Arya not pick Tywin as one of her kills and they managed to pull it off by making it an urgent situation.

Complaints: Stealing the dragons was pure cheese. It didn't make sense to me that Osha didn't take the opportunity to stab Theon before she snuck off with Bran & pals. I know, I know he's needed later but they could have put Osha somewhere else besides Theon's bedroom. Ygritte's "wiggling" was annoying. Other than that, fine episode.

[redriver]

Cracking episode.Gave it a 9,only because I'm saving my 10's for later.I'm not bothered by the deviations from the books.

If they seem a bit odd now,I'm sure they will work ultimately,including the theft of the dragons.

I laughed out loud at the Lorch death.I'm hoping it was meant to be funny.

[Eira Seren]

While I agree with the content of your comment, I fail to see how you (or anyone) can judge this at this point, when these diversions from the storyline have not run their full course.

There have been a multitude of complaints about immaterial things (peaches! Xaro is straight!). At least fifty percent, if not more, of the complaints seem to revolve around these types of issues. We all have favorite things -- they cut one of my favorite book lines period from last night for no apparent reason -- but sometimes we have to get over them. Even such things as potentially cutting the Reeds fall here under your definition, which I am all good with.

But Dany's dragon getting stolen? Jon and Ygritte being together earlier? I suppose some of these could lead to truly substantial changes, but right now it's pretty easy to get back to thematic and character consistency and also hit major plot points. (E.g. people are freaking that we won't get Qhorin/Jon. It's possible we won't. It's possible it won't be like in the books, with Qhorin losing on purpose. But it's still possible we'll end up exactly where we started but with a better basis for allowing Jon to join the wildings, more Jon plot in season 2 and more Ygritte.)

I've frankly seen very few significant and permanent departures. I haven't seen anything with unavoidable butterfly effects on the main characters. . . .

It's true, some of us have pet lines and characters, and find it difficult when they don't measure up to our imaginations, or how they were portrayed in earlier episodes. Though perhaps we don't know about the significant and permanent departures just yet, seeing as how the book series and the next seasons aren't even finished! sometimes maybe those of us who've read the books (and maybe those who haven't) wonder if the writers know where the story will go in later seasons, or if they are just coming up with it as they go along. It's definitely interesting to see the changes that work and those that don't so much. I'm finding I rather like the dragon theft, for instance.

I just have a question for the people that have been consistantly complaining about the changes in the story that the show keeps making from the books:

Now that you know that the show is going to do that, and it annoys you, why do you keep watching? I mean, if you can't accept, whether you like it or not that, this is the direction the show will take for future seasons as well as the conclusion of this season, why do you keep tuning in? For once, I'm not being sarcastic.

Is it out of an obligation that you read the books and thus have to watch the show? Are you still watching just to mock it out, alla MST3K?

I mean, I used to like Fringe, then I thought it got goofy, so I stopped watching it. If you don't like the changes, and you can't accept that its being made into a seperate entity, with storylines vastly different from the book, why subject yourself to an hour of annoyance?

You have the right to your opinions, and that's what this forum is for, but you can't question our love of the books because we can understand and accept that the show is the show, and the books are the books. Besides, doesn't it say "BASED on A Song of Ice and Fire" in the credits?

Maybe i sortof answered your question a bit already, at least for my part. I watch with other viewers, and two have now pretty much decided to stop, mainly because the changes frustrate them so much. I noticed earlier today that several people on the HBO forum have also decided to stop watching, some have (like one of my friends) even cancelled. It's nice to know that the show has high enough ratings and enough subscribers that some cancellations and loss of viewers won't effect things like renewals, budget, etc.

probably because I love the characters and the story (and admire the incredible depth and richness of the texts) with a passion that is nerdy and pure, i also care what happens to the series. kindof like when you discover that someone you care about has been badly misconstrued, or at the very least went back to work after lunch with green bean in their teeth and their fly unzipped. i'm sure as well that the writers also care very much about this series. and i suppose that HBO has given us the very best, especially with season 1, and now we expect it :cool4:

perhaps the answer is loyalty. though in Ned's case, that didn't turn out quite as he anticipated.

[Dalfiatach]

I do find the 1/2/3 ratings curious. These ratings mean not only is it poor adaptation of the books but objectively bad TV all around putting all gripes about book adaptation aside. I fail to see how anyone can call GoT total rubbish, especialy from people who like the genre and are OK with sex and violence in their reading material.

The maddest thing about some of the book-purist nerd-rage on the forum is when they start ranting about all the naked people on TV.

They did read the same books as the rest of us, right?

[tryagainlater]

I gave it a 9. I understand a lot of the complaints but the faults of the episode were not enough to deter me from enjoying it. Some rambling thoughts:

-I've been anticipating Theon taking Winterfell and the riot scene since the start of the season and they didn't disappoint.

-Tyrion bitch slap was epic

-San/San stuff was nice to see. Heck, the Hound having a line for once made it for me

-I love Charles Dance so I don't mind Tywin being made more sympathethic. We'll hate him by the Red Wedding anyway

-Dany getting called out on how useless her plan take Westeros is was fun

-Poor Rodrik :( Great scene

-Iceland looks fantastic

-Arya's second kill was lame. People have a right to complain about that. Still love the guy playing Jaqen H'gar though

-Why is Littlefinger the new main character of the show that can apparently teleport around Westeros?