[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

[Fredwin]

I feel like Jon is a good example. Him choosing to go with Halfhand, his whole scene with Ygritte. He is suppose to let her go, and show that he doesn't have the heart to kill this young girl. I feel like he is coming off too arrogant in the show (just my take), maybe not arrogant, but some word I can't quite put my tongue on.

I'll tell you what it is. Jon Snow in the series has no opinion of his own. People are constantly telling him what to do and how to feel. There is no internal PoV to show what's going on in his head so he just looks and acts like a stooge.

[boojam]

Haha yeah but Amory Lorch is a doofus. At least he is made out be in the show. I actually really enjoyed that sequence. Lorch dropping down dead just as he was entering the room, I laughed. I swear, when Arya was saying "it has to be now!", that little sigh Jaqen let out was his version of a Barney Stinson style "challenge accepted!"

Yeah I really wonder if D&D read that teleplay, because with a little thought even at that fast pace the narrative drama in that scene could have made more sense.

[7V3N]

I know that's why they do it, but they could still stand to be a little more subtle at times in the show. Theon can be responsible for Winterfell's sacking...he doesn't need to have Dagmer calling the shots or egging him on. I thought the scene with Theon writing that letter to Robb and burning it was a perfect way to showcase his moral dilemmas. Scenes like that can help viewers empathize with Theon, regardless of how bad his crimes are...especially if he goes through Ramsay's torture later on. Instead they are making his crimes less atrocious because Dagmer is standing over him telling him he has to kill Rodrik, etc. :dunno:

Oh I am not sticking up for them. I am pointing out how it is BULLSHIT haha. I totally agree with you, and have really hated the writers this season (for the most part). I love the subtly, the foreshadowing, the tricks GRRM plays on us readers. The writers, however, feel that we are too dumb and need to be spoonfed all of the material. Perfect example: every Stannis and Dany rant this season.

[Chise]

I know that's why they do it, but they could still stand to be a little more subtle at times in the show. Theon can be responsible for Winterfell's sacking...he doesn't need to have Dagmer calling the shots or egging him on. I thought the scene with Theon writing that letter to Robb and burning it was a perfect way to showcase his moral dilemmas. Scenes like that can help viewers empathize with Theon, regardless of how bad his crimes are...especially if he goes through Ramsay's torture later on.

:agree: YES!! ALL OF MY YES!!

I'm pretty much calling this HBO's iron price now: for every absolutely fantastic scene, we gotta pay for it with a shit-written scene or completely outta character moment

Theon's letter, in most perfectly set up shot of his candle being the only tiny source of light in complete darkness - Osha's tits

Sansa's anguish in King's Landing - Littlefinger acting not like himself for half an episode

Brienne, Davos, Saan - Shae the fuckin' rude whore

[Morrigan]

Yeah, how in the heck would LF recognize Arya? He might have glanced at her a few times while she was in KL, but I never remember them having any interactions.

They did, at the Hand's tourney she asked him how he got his nickname.

[Buckwheat]

(may I say how happy I am to have seen two Roz-free episodes in succession?)

What's with Littlefinger eyeing Arya? He's acting like he recognizes her? And Tywin doesn't notice that his cute cupbearer-girl is scurrying in and out of LF's line of sight like a scared chipmunk?

just felt that there was a missing scene where Sansa and Shae were shown to be more at ease with each other to bridge the probability gap.

May I join your rejoicing over that fact? :agree:

I was expecting Tywin to comment on the weird acting of his cupbearer and his guest, but he did not even seem to notice. It was strange.

Removing myself from the book, I was struggling to recall when exactly tv LF met up with tv Arya. He was chattering with Sansa at the tournament in season one. Was Arya there? Was he there when Cersei ordered Sansa's direwolf executed? I cannot recall a time when he would have spent any significant time with her that he'd recognize her. :dunno:

"Why do they call you Littlefinger?"

Another nitpick: Qhorin wants Ygritte to die? Really? This is another example of dumbing the series down, I think.

[Targaryen Kaiser]

I'll tell you what it is. Jon Snow in the series has no opinion of his own. People are constantly telling him what to do and how to feel. There is no internal PoV to show what's going on in his head so he just looks and acts like a stooge.

I think they are moving his character development to the next season. His days with the wildlings will man-up the boy. Yeah, in the series he is still a boy.

[Roose Trollton.]

Charles Dance's acting is absolutely atrocious.

Tywin in the show is nothing like in the books. In the shows he constantly yells, raises his voice and even smiles sometimes.

[7V3N]

Charles Dance's acting is absolutely atrocious.

Tywin in the show is nothing like in the books. In the shows he constantly yells, raises his voice and even smiles sometimes.

This has already been addressed and shot down. Get a screenshot of said smile and then we can restart this debate.

And regardless of how upset you are about "yelling" and "smiles," you would be a complete moron to think that Charles Dance's acting is anything short of excellent throughout the series.

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

Why does no one recognise Jon as a Stark? The Starks have a unique look and Jon sticks out in the Nights watch because of it. The books constantly have Jon being recognised as a Stark and it sets up the mystery surrounding the role of the Starks and the wall. Craster first points out Jon has the Stark look but D&D seem to have gone out of their way to cut this and give Craster other motives for hating him. Ygritte mentions Jon looks like a Stark and this imo is part of her attraction to him. Lastly Mance notes he has Stark blood and I thought part of the reason Mance was able to look over Jon's dodgy reasons for turning was because of his Starkness.

They seem to have cut all this out and I doubt Mance will make reference to it in S3. I just hope they haven't cut all this clever forshadowing to add some blundering prophecy in series 5/6 if it turns out there is something special about Stark blood.

[Roose Trollton.]

I don't know where to find screenshots but he does smiles, several times.

And you can't deny he also raises his voice and yells the whole time.

[My Little Kraken]

After he tells Arya that the Maester says they must live with Jamie's dyslexia he says "ha!". I think he does look a bit smiley when he then explains how he sat Jamie down and taught him to read himself. However, it is not a full-on, proper smile.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh172/angelinadi/dance.jpg

[My Little Kraken]

Oh, and I think Charles Dance is a great actor and I love his scenes with Arya.

[Ser Amoc]

The crowd wasn't aggressive at all!

You must have missed the part where the crowd literally rips that guy limb from limb like a pack of zombies.

[Ser Amoc]

I'm seeing a lot of complaints about the KL scene with the lack of horses. Not sure if this has been pointed out, but HBO just went through a pretty big fail with their show Luck involving several horses dying, so HBO probably wants to do what they can to avoid anything like that happening again.

[Ran]

Well, that's not really relevant, as that scene was shot months ago. That said, the show has found working with animals very time consuming in relationship to the intense shoot schedules. Besides that, Dubrovnik may well have restrictions on horses in the streets, and I'm pretty sure the scene would have safety and animal welfare concerns to boot.

So, no horses. It's the nature of TV that not everything is going to be doable.

[JackSpadegi]

Another nitpick: Qhorin wants Ygritte to die? Really? This is another example of dumbing the series down, I think.

I believe they completely missed the point with QH so far... The dialogue between Jon and the Halfhand that followed that scene in the books was sublime but now, in the show, it has obviously been cut off.

You must have missed the part where the crowd literally rips that guy limb from limb like a pack of zombies.

That and Sansa's aggression were the only scenes where we really see violence and, IMO, when the crowd attacked and ripped off the High Septon's arm they looked exactly like zombies and that's not how I imagined that. They are hungry people, not dead zombies with no feelings, they are supposed to be utterly out of control while they almost seem to lay the priest down and they are far too calm when that guy raises the arm they ripped off.

When I read that scene, I thought that the whole party was attacked and that there would have been chaos around everyone. I could feel the crowd's hatred for the royal family and for the High Septon, but in the TV show I felt it was way less chaotic.

[Ser Amoc]

I totally agree. They kind of glossed over it. I thought Sansa and the Hound's scene played out well. The High Septon getting ripped to pieces definitely felt like something out of zombie movie though. I think the scene got the general point across, but it just missed the details, which is typical for a book-to-tv adaptation. You're right though, more chaos probably could have ensued. I'm hoping this season's budget was really focused on episode 9.

[still_in_love_with_ned]

Hello all,

I'm new here so be gentle! I just wanted a mini-rant because I was irritated by this episode - I love, love, love the books and am loving the show (less than I did in season 1 but still loving it)!! I know most points have been covered in this forum, but I wanted my two-penneth worth...

I don't understand why they have gone so off-book with both Danerys and Jon, it doesn't make sense. Well, ok, some of Dany's bits do as her story through the red waste etc was quite lengthy, but why do the dragons randomly get stolen??

And, I agree with everyone here about changing how Jon and Ygritte first meet and interact (I quite like the actress though, not far off how I pictured her). It's going to make the rest of the storyline really difficult if they don't have the moral dilemma that Jon's put in about obeying Quorhin, loving Ygritte and the vows he made to the old Gods about becoming a Crow. Humph.

Anyway, I did love the bit of Clegane saving Sansa - for me the not being on horses bit was a bit neither here nor there (the ripping off of the septon's arm did remind me a bit of Sean of the Dead mind you), and I do think he loves her in a bit of a deranged way.

There, I'm happy now I've got that off my chest - and I look forward to the next episode!

[Buckwheat]

Why does no one recognise Jon as a Stark? The Starks have a unique look and Jon sticks out in the Nights watch because of it. The books constantly have Jon being recognised as a Stark and it sets up the mystery surrounding the role of the Starks and the wall. Craster first points out Jon has the Stark look but D&D seem to have gone out of their way to cut this and give Craster other motives for hating him. Ygritte mentions Jon looks like a Stark and this imo is part of her attraction to him. Lastly Mance notes he has Stark blood and I thought part of the reason Mance was able to look over Jon's dodgy reasons for turning was because of his Starkness.

They seem to have cut all this out and I doubt Mance will make reference to it in S3. I just hope they haven't cut all this clever forshadowing to add some blundering prophecy in series 5/6 if it turns out there is something special about Stark blood.

Well, you have to admit that the actor does not look like any of the other actors playing Starks. It would sound silly if someone said "Hey, you totally look like Sean Bean, especially the two of you have very similar hair, is there any chance you are family?" :P