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teemo

[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

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Little nitpicks:

1. Myrecella crying.

2. Apparently I am the only one who was expecting Ygritte's line "I will not be able to be brave for ever" or something similar (sorry, only read the translated ACOK). She just keeps repeating "Do it!" Why? This line tells so much about her in the books, and it wouls take no extra time.

3. Jon chasing her after he already did not kill her - it makes him look like an indecisive fool. And where was Ghost? I am not going to nitpick about them laying together scene, because I had a good laugh at it, but I agree it is silly.

4. Talisa ... <_<

5. No horses in KL and no horses North of the Wall - really? Yes, budget, and Sophie is allergic to them, and dangerous to film it, and Iceland ... but it looks stupid.

6. Littlefinger apparently owns an airplane now.

7.) Technically speaking, yes bran and rickon are princes's because robbs a king now.

This. I suppose the point was to show that Joffrey is too stupid to realise that. I half expected Sansa would point it out to him, which would result in another beating, well, fortunately for her, she avoided it.

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The dragon's being taken could argueably be more "realistic", but if that is your opinion it opens the door to why didn't they just kill Dany at the gates and take her dragons when she threatened them? We shall see how it plays out, but it's hard to imagine a scenario where she could realistically retake her dragons after most of her party is killed, rather than being killed herself when she tries.

Same could have said that about the book too. Well it's an approximation of Geroge's Qarth which is more civilized than the Slaver Cities.

I can't remember Dany explicitly asking for ships in Qarth, in fact except for the House of the Undying nothing much until she runs into Arstan and Belwas , who magically re inject Illyrio back into the story.

It was all kind of flat, D&D have seemed to struggle with finding a way to punch up the Qarth story.

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-I'm not happy with Jon's storyline changes. They've changed him from dark, brooding, and talented to incompetent and emo. They literally could have let Ygritte go and the scene would have been fundamentally the same but instead we got a lame spooning scene.

-I'm losing faith that the Bloody Mummers will ever appear. I already know that the Reeds are gone.

- I think Littlefinger is actually from the 23rd century and has a teleporter.

-Talisa-Robb is stupid. It's making me excited for the RW.

-Dany's changes don't bother me (besides the fact that she's acting like Viserys constantly with this blood and fire business). Her Red Waste bit was expressed enough and Quarth wasn't all that interesting except for the House of the Undying and Belwas/Barristan. At least now there's some suspense. My only hope is that she goes through Meereen like she does the Red Waste.

The only good thing about the Talisa/Robb scenes is that they're not Roz-with-anyone scenes. Talisa annoys me slightly less than Roz. (may I say how happy I am to have seen two Roz-free episodes in succession?) But the Robb/Talisa dialogue is awkward Hollywood banter at best, and does not belong in anything associated with GRRM. I will say that Talisa looked more appropriately attired - stressed, tired-looking, with battlefield/camp grime, than Ygritte (who looked clean and bright as well as spunky with a capital S). But I would have preferred shy, sweet little Jeyne Westerling instead of Talisa-doing-ER Westeros.

I really do think that Talisa was writing a letter to Tywin detailing the Young Wolf's movements, actually. Catelyn was, to me, very restrained, when she got her mom-radar up; if I'd been in her boots, I'd have dragged Robb off by the ear and lectured him; but I suppose she's politic enough not to embarrass the King of the North that way, even if he is her son and is letting his hormones (and a bad script) get the better of him.

Tywin and Arya have tremendous actor-chemistry together, but why is Tywin Lannister discussing his son's childhood dyslexia with a serving girl? We get that he thinks the cupbearer is a clever girl; but this is Tywin Lannister we're seeing, who doesn't even bother to ask the kid's name, and he's actually conversing with her as if she's an equal? I'm surprised that the scriptwriters haven't had Tywin decide he's going to either adopt the child or marry her! And he hasn't noticed that her manners and accent are not really those of a stonemason's child?

What's with Littlefinger eyeing Arya? He's acting like he recognizes her? And Tywin doesn't notice that his cute cupbearer-girl is scurrying in and out of LF's line of sight like a scared chipmunk?

Dany's scenes with Xaro Xoan Daxos remind me of a bouncy little Maltese dog tagging along with a stately Great Dane; it's kind of cute, but she is so young and ignorant compared to him. Love their outfits, though. I did understand why the other fella, the spicer-merchant, kept putting her down, she seemed very annoying ---I want to reclaim my throne, though I've never been there, have no money or armies or allies, you have to give me ships, fire-and-blood, yak-yak-yak. I had the impression that the scene was just written to fill up time, it didn't work that well, seemed to show only that Dany has no clue how to be a successful power-player in Qarth when she doesn't have Drogon burning things for her. (which makes a certain amount of since, since Dany had absolutely no training in how to become a queen, a leader, and is still quite young).

Speaking of outfits, Cersei gets a change of costume like with every scene, but Sansa only seems to have two dresses; and Dany was just given one (the peacock-pretty turquoise and gold affair) in Qarth? Sansa's supposedly betrothed to the King of the Seven Kingdoms, they can't give her a couple more outfits? And X-X-D keeps saying how wealthy he is, he could spring for another dress for Dany.

Sansa is suddenly acting very chummy with Shae, when the last time we saw them together, Sansa was alternately terrified of her new servant and petulant with her (understandably, since Sansa is surrounded by spies and Lannisters and thought that Shae, who doesn't exactly act like a maidservant, was a spy). Sansa implied she trusted Shae when she didn't trust anyone else? Unless they were trying to imply that Sansa was so stressed and desperate, having been beaten and humiliated and just nearly-raped that she was reaching out for some kind of comfort/friendship with a woman she had not trusted before? I just felt that there was a missing scene where Sansa and Shae were shown to be more at ease with each other to bridge the probability gap.

I did like the Theon/Winterfell scenes. My only minor quibble was, when poor Bran was begging/pleading and crying for Theon not to kill Rodrick, I thought I heard Bran's voice change from child's to teenager's - I think the young actor is going through puberty. The scenes were still harrowing, though (except for Osha seducing Theon - young woman disrobing and showing full frontal nudity is old stuff by now in this series).

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I'm adding myself to the group of women who don't enjoy sappy romantic stories. Any romantic story has to be very well done to catch my attention, and they are rarely very well done by TV or Hollywood. I can't wait for Blackwater either, it has always been one of my favorite parts of the story.

Big romance fans won't be watching GoT or reading ASoIaF anyway, and we already have Jon/Ygritte, which are cute together. Instead, give us something more offbeat, like Sansa/Sandor, please! I weep when I think of all the wonderful San/San scenes that haven't made it to the show.

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Littlefinger keeping his knowledge of Arya to himself is perfectly in line with his character.

It would be absolutely not like Littlefinger to recognize Arya and give that information to Tywin. He would wait until the very best moment to use it. I don't see why this bothers you?

As for Tywin, to be honest, I don't think we get enough, and more important, objective, information about Tywin to be able to clearly say that he wouldn't engage in conversation with Arya. It definitely fits with the Show character and imo with the book character as well.

It's totally in line with how LF works, agreed. However.

Book LF, in fact book everyone that wasn't Yoren, has no idea where Arya is from the time Ned is seized til the last page of DWD. So LF recognizing her in Harrenhall ( a place he wasn't at while she was there) while being Tywin's cup bearer (something that never happened) and keeping it to himself for later uses (information he does not have) is to what end, exactly? Arya falls off the face of the earth, save her brief journey with The Hound. Four books. No one from KL knows where she is so I cannot abide this somewhat not trivial tv plot point.

Removing myself from the book, I was struggling to recall when exactly tv LF met up with tv Arya. He was chattering with Sansa at the tournament in season one. Was Arya there? Was he there when Cersei ordered Sansa's direwolf executed? I cannot recall a time when he would have spent any significant time with her that he'd recognize her. :dunno: While Sansa was off at court with Joffrey, Arya was water dancing. The two of them spent no significant time together where they would be seen as the Stark sisters. Anyways.

I could gripe forever. I want to like it. They are making it nigh impossible for me.

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I suppose the point was to show that Joffrey is too stupid to realise that. I half expected Sansa would point it out to him, which would result in another beating, well, fortunately for her, she avoided it.

I saw it as a moment for book readers. The line probably swept by non-readers, but readers notice that, of course, Bran and Rickon are princes. I think it was a minor and quick way of showing that Sansa is learning to be submissive and is careful not to anger Joff.

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Stop picking on my nitpicking :P

Sorry, sorry, you're right, this isn't the thread for that. :D Carry on.

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ok very small nitpick but have any of the writers ever played hide and seek?

i mean really, when you are chasing someone do you stop looking 2 feet from a corner? or do you look around the corner

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ok very small nitpick but have any of the writers ever played hide and seek?

i mean really, when you are chasing someone do you stop looking 2 feet from a corner? or do you look around the corner

Haha yeah but Amory Lorch is a doofus. At least he is made out be in the show. I actually really enjoyed that sequence. Lorch dropping down dead just as he was entering the room, I laughed. I swear, when Arya was saying "it has to be now!", that little sigh Jaqen let out was his version of a Barney Stinson style "challenge accepted!"

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Yeah, how in the heck would LF recognize Arya? He might have glanced at her a few times while she was in KL, but I never remember them having any interactions. Not to mention, she looks completely different now. I guess you could just say, "Well, LF is so clever he never forgets a face," but I don't know.

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Jaime's dyslexia---pointless. Did one of the writers put this in for him- or herself? Was it a shout-out to some sort of demographic?

Precious dialogue time is wasted on a discussion of learning to read. Aren't there other ways to humanize Tywin? And why, exactly, do we need to humanize him? Is it to explain to viewers why Arya isn't naming Tywin for assassination?

Harrenhal---too small. It's positively claustrophobic.

Qhorin and Jon and Ygritte--It could still work. It's probably not worth speculating on how this can still work out, since we should know in another week, but my fantasy on how this can be remedied is that Qhorin left pretty quickly after permitting Jon to kill her alone; He can say later that he knew Jon would let her go. I suppose we deserve a closeup of Qhorin's face at that point. Or, Jon has a plausible reason for being AWOL for a day: Ygritte escaped him and he chased her in hopes of finishing the job. (At the same time, Ygritte has time to develop some sort of affection for Jon, which gives her a reason to support him later.) Or the writers make it Jon's idea to infiltrate (?). That wouldn't make sense; why emphasize Qhorin Halfhand's name in this episode and last? I mean, who cares if Jon kills him then? He's just some extra.

Spooning and trying to gyrate on Jon? Really? That looked silly. She's the only woman not afraid of rape? If she's trying to arouse him in order to disarm him, she's displaying a little too much mirth, in my opinion. And I don't want Jon's portrayal to end up being that of a big dumb dope. Even though he "knows nothing," there's plenty he does know. Naivete that works in the book will end up too comical in this condensed TV version.

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Arya was definitely sitting next to Sansa at the tourney where Ser Hugh takes it in the throat and Littlefinger is sitting there talking to Sansa about the Hound's story, and Arya so "rudely" (according to Septa Mordane) asks Littlefinger how he got his own nickname.

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Jaime's dyslexia---pointless. Did one of the writers put this in for him- or herself? Was it a shout-out to some sort of demographic?

Precious dialogue time is wasted on a discussion of learning to read. Aren't there other ways to humanize Tywin? And why, exactly, do we need to humanize him? Is it to explain to viewers why Arya isn't naming Tywin for assassination?

I'm praying that after RW, she realizes she could have prevented it all by naming Tywin, Joffrey and Cersei. It could go down in an emotional/depressed rage to the Hound about how it is her fault and she could have said those names. I can imagine Maisie yelling with tears all over her face, "I could have stopped them! I could have said Tywin, or Joffrey but I wasted it on the Tickler!" Of course the Hound wouldn't give a shit what she is talking about so there would be no consequences of her saying it.

Spooning and trying to gyrate on Jon? Really? That looked silly. She's the only woman not afraid of rape? If she's trying to arouse him in order to disarm him, she's displaying a little too much mirth, in my opinion. And I don't want Jon's portrayal to end up being that of a big dumb dope. Even though he "knows nothing," there's plenty he does know. Naivete that works in the book will end up too comical in this condensed TV version.

Jon stole her. It'd make more sense if they explained the the wildling version of marriage. Unless the writers were going for something else....

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Jaime's dyslexia---pointless. Did one of the writers put this in for him- or herself? Was it a shout-out to some sort of demographic?

:lol:

And now that guy (Dagmar?) seems to be calling the shots. Did he say "pay the iron price" in reference to killing Roderick? Is that even how the term is used?

This is a good question. Can someone answer this?

I also am annoyed about Dagmer being responsible for a lot of Theon's actions, when Theon had to practically beg him for his support in the books. Maybe they want to make Theon easier to sympathize with? That and him screaming at his daddy about how he didn't love him and sent him away? :rolleyes: Why is D&D doing this to some of the characters? Through good writing viewers could easily still feel empathy for Theon without all of this modified crap.

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I always thought the iron price was killing someone to be allowed to loot them. Doesn't Balon ask Theon if he paid the iron price to acquire his jewelry?

About the writers adding in so much stuff: It is because the show has taken all of the subtly away from the books. We see through constant reading that Littlefinger may still be in love with Cat (until the Moon Door). It is implied subtly. In the show, they felt the need to make a scene where LF basically claims his motive for everything in AGOT/season 1 was to get Cat.

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I always thought the iron price was killing someone to be allowed to loot them. Doesn't Balon ask Theon if he paid the iron price to acquire his jewelry?

About the writers adding in so much stuff: It is because the show has taken all of the subtly away from the books. We see through constant reading that Littlefinger may still be in love with Cat (until the Moon Door). It is implied subtly. In the show, they felt the need to make a scene where LF basically claims his motive for everything in AGOT/season 1 was to get Cat.

I know that's why they do it, but they could still stand to be a little more subtle at times in the show. Theon can be responsible for Winterfell's sacking...he doesn't need to have Dagmer calling the shots or egging him on. I thought the scene with Theon writing that letter to Robb and burning it was a perfect way to showcase his moral dilemmas. Scenes like that can help viewers empathize with Theon, regardless of how bad his crimes are...especially if he goes through Ramsay's torture later on. Instead they are making his crimes less atrocious because Dagmer is standing over him telling him he has to kill Rodrik, etc. :dunno:

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Spooning and trying to gyrate on Jon? Really? That looked silly. She's the only woman not afraid of rape? If she's trying to arouse him in order to disarm him, she's displaying a little too much mirth, in my opinion. And I don't want Jon's portrayal to end up being that of a big dumb dope. Even though he "knows nothing," there's plenty he does know. Naivete that works in the book will end up too comical in this condensed TV version.

I actually found this very funny. Plays up to how Ygritte is more world-weary than Jon. He spared her, so she's taken him for something of a craven. She's toying with him, something that Ygritte did a lot in the book. "You know nothing" and all that.

I reckon she's going to be gone in the morning. She'll escape his bondage *giggle* and Jon will locate his watch brothers. She'll return in episode 10 I reckon.

The affection between the two will become much apparent in season 3 when Jon "defects". He will be more inclined to reciprocate the playful flirtation once he lets his guard down with her.

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I actually found this very funny. Plays up to how Ygritte is more world-weary than Jon. He spared her, so she's taken him for something of a craven. She's toying with him, something that Ygritte did a lot in the book. "You know nothing" and all that.

I reckon she's going to be gone in the morning. The affection between the two will become much apparent in season 3 when Jon "defects". He will be more inclined to reciprocate the playful flirtation once he lets his guard down with her.

I hope you're right. That seems like the best way they could handle it from here on out.

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I know everyone has already complained about this but I have to say. I just can't stand the way the changes they make change the essence of the characters. As several people have pointed out Jon bragging about killing the white walker and asking to go with Qhorin makes him appear pushy and prideful. Now this business with Ygritte will make his joining the wildings look bad, no matter how they try to dress it up. Arya isn't right either, I understand that when you have an actor like Charles Dance that it's tempting to use him for everything but this change is making this experience less horrible for Arya. She is not nearly terrified enough, Harrenhall is just not as horrible a place (yes I saw the rat eating torture, but I mean the overall feeling of the place, in the book those descriptions were ongoing torture, the whole experience was constantly horrifying) and the horribleness is important for the person Arya becomes. It will not be believable when this Arya wants to be a faceless man (faceless person?) Leaving out the Reeds leaves out an important bit of the setup for where Bran is headed, not just the actual journey but why and what it will mean when he gets there. The magic is missing from the North. Not just with Bran but Jon as well (Ghost is just a big pet) as someone pointed out they have used all of Cersei's actions to make Joffrey look worse (unnecessary!). Don't even get me started on "Talisa". I just don't understand why they are changing the essence of the characters this way.

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