Brienne & Stannis?

[blackseer]

I'm not sure what you mean by the "names a hint".

As for Stannis and I've yet to see any great overwhelming love or fans of his character. Tyrion sure. Daenerys has her fans as well. Jon Snow of course. But Stannis? As far as I can tell hes just like the vast majority of the characters.

Anyways as others have pointed out he is hypocritical and unable to look at himself and see the crimes that he has committed. I don't see him living past the next book and I hope he doesn't.

He meant his nick means he is one of Stannis' fans. Jon, Dany and Tyrion are the main characters of the series, so of course they have the most fans. But of the side characters, Stannis is close to the top. One of the 10, at least.

I think he will die, but in the last book. No reason to kill him now, except for shock value.

[PatrickStormborn]

Stannis is my king, he became so when he listened to Davos and lifted both hands to defend the kingdom.

Could you imagine how different the books would be right now if Mance got through the wall and there was no host large enough in the North to dispose them?

Yeah ... The wildlings would be safe from the Others. That's it. That's the difference.

[Dreadnaught]

Stannis is my king, he became so when he listened to Davos and lifted both hands to defend the kingdom.

Could you imagine how different the books would be right now if Mance got through the wall and there was no host large enough in the North to dispose them?

Yeah, they'd probably attack the Karstarks and Boltons and take their lands.

[Dreadnaught]

I am a bit worried that GRRM will give Brienne the fantasy or fairytale ending by killing Stannis, possibly dying right after herself.

But Martin, please don't.

If Brienne free's Sansa, then she would most likely head north to find the fake Arya. She stops in at Winterfell, finds Stannis there.

[StannisandDaeny]

Succeeding in exacting revenge is not a very common theme in ASOIAF, it would be stupid to start now.

'Hoping Briënne will kill Stannis' is just either wishful thinking because of a dislike of Stannis, or thinking you know the story, but actually entirely not getting the point of what it's about.

Having Brienne kill Stannis 'for vengeance' would make her pre-story and character development completely pointless.

Why? Her story and how she condemns Jaime at first and then gradually begins to understand him shows the belief in dogmas she is prone to at first (like many people in Westeros and many of you as well, apparently) falls subject and is destroyed by a sense of reason she develops thanks to her relationship with Jaime.

Killing Renly was a reasonable act. He was a rebel who was ready to kill his brother and usurp the throne the moment he took up the crown. He would gladly have killed Stannis to become King, was completely ready to do so, and was thus a Kinslayer in intent, more so than Stannis because Renly is the one who took up the sword against Stannis, not the other way around.

If Briënne, following her entire realization that Jaime acted reasonably by killing Aerys still cannot understand Stannis, well then, what's the point of putting this bitter, dogmatic, delusional woman through all this to make her a more reasonable person? Also note how in her early chapters she dreams of Renly being killed, later she dreams of Jaime and doesn't give Renly a second thought anymore. She was blinded by love and now her love for Jaime has opened her eyes to see beyond the dogmas her world dictates. Seeing the general sense of (read: the lack of) what are proper 'principles' in Westeros, I do not think we should hold any of them in very high regard.

As someone who is constantly confronted with the dogma that she cannot be a knight because she's a woman while it makes perfect sense that she would be a knight and judging by her entire backstory, she should now be able to see past the dogmas that dictate 'King- or Kinslaying isn't right under any circumstance'. She managed to do so for Jaime, she should manage to do the same for Stannis.

Why? It is far stronger writing to make a character abandon a petty vengeance she swore than to put it through for no reason, with no gains, after it goes against everything she's learned since she swore it.

Suddenly turning her into a senseless vengeful killing machine again and suddenly bringing her mind back to Renly now even though Stannis is basically an ally now he is fighting the Freys, has the North's best interests in mind and is Catelyn (her employer's) best bet of avenging Ned and her children would be an extremely weak and pointless plot twist.

[Babeldygob]

As for Stannis and I've yet to see any great overwhelming love or fans of his character.

Here I am!

I don't get how you all hate Stannis but love Tyrion. They're both kinslayers. Tyrion even much more than him. Tyrion is even plotting to slay his sister. What Renly did to Stannis is by law much worse than what Tywin did to Tyrion. Renly commited fucking treason against his own OLDER brother. Renly knows Stannis and knows that Stannis will never bend the knee to him. So by doing that, he knows that he'll have to kill Stannis at some point. Renly has very much deserved what he got and Stannis - if he did it all knowingly, which I doubt, because he explains to Davos exactly why he came here (Mel's visions don't predict Renly's death) and he didn't know Renly was gonna die because of it - is completely right for assassinating Renly. It's the best move. He only killed Renly, nobody else died. Renly deserved to be killed or at least sent to the Wall. Renly didn't give Stannis a choice.

Tyrion just burst in a room and killed two people, his father among them. He didn't have to do it, he just did it because he could.

Now which is worse? I believe you're all prejudiced because Stannis is not a likable character and Tyrion is.

Don't get me wrong. I love Tyrion and I love Stannis. I'm just saying that if you cast judgement, cast it right and cast it on everyone, not just the uncool characters.

I don't see him living past the next book and I hope he doesn't.

He will and you'll have to deal with it, hater! :wideeyed:

[Sand Flower in the Snow]

I think Stannis is going to be a part of what GRRM states will be a bittersweet ending to the series. GRRM has stressed the theme of Kinslaying being one of the worst sins to commit. I fear that all those guilty of kinslaying (intentional or unintentional) will meet their end. That makes me sad because I do love the characters of both Stannis and Tyrion. If the miller's sons were really Theon's, then that would mean that Theon will eventually die as well. It is my hope that if Stannis and Tyrion die, they die for some worthy and grand reason.

I think that Brienne shouted "Stannis" to Un-Cat which forced her to halt the whole execute Brienne thing. After all, Cat made a vow to Brienne that she would never keep her from avenging Renly by going after Stannis.

I may be completely off the mark but it is a feeling I can not shake. I also think they Frey's will die hard, hard, and super crazy hard for violating the other big NO NO in Westeros which is the violation of Guest Rights.

[MadMage]

Why would Brienne go north to face off with Stannis when she knows through Jaime that Arya is an imposter? Stannis would be surrounded by his men and host. No matter how badass she is, she wouldn't be able to cut through all those people. She's very recognizable and would be stopped as many believe her to be Renly's murderer. Furthermore, the BwB's loose worship of the Lord of Light might actually make them want to side with Stannis.

With no Starks currently in position to bring justice to the Boltons or Freys, I think Stannis will last at least long enough to take the Boltons down and at least threaten the Freys. However, I can certainly see the Northern Lords wanting to return to their lands once the Freys are dealt with. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the BwB doesn't join up with him at least temporarily to accomplish that task. After that, all bets are off.

[aryagonnakill]

i cant believe ive been operating under the belief that brienne shouted jaime. definetly agree that shouting stannis was a good bet. good call. also stannis has lots of fans you shouldnt state your own opinion as fact. That being said i do believe stannis will be punished for killing renly, but maybe not... I would love it if jaime and cersei were aegons bastards and that both tyrion and jaime killed their own fathers, but it could easily be the other way which makes tyrion not a kinslayer and allows him to ride dragons. anythings possible

[Sand Flower in the Snow]

i cant believe ive been operating under the belief that brienne shouted jaime. definetly agree that shouting stannis was a good bet. good call. also stannis has lots of fans you shouldnt state your own opinion as fact. That being said i do believe stannis will be punished for killing renly, but maybe not... I would love it if jaime and cersei were aegons bastards and that both tyrion and jaime killed their own fathers, but it could easily be the other way which makes tyrion not a kinslayer and allows him to ride dragons. anythings possible

If you are referring to my post, what I said is most definitely just my opinion/belief and far from factual in any way. My statement stems from my woman's intuition and nothing more. :)

[LaughedHunter]

Another Stanninite here, look Renly commited treason by taking up arms against Stannis, therefore by law Renly should die. Stannis is no more a kinslayer than Dany was by watching her brother get murdered and did nothing to stop her husband.

[Dreadnaught]

Why would Brienne go north to face off with Stannis when she knows through Jaime that Arya is an imposter? Stannis would be surrounded by his men and host. No matter how badass she is, she wouldn't be able to cut through all those people. She's very recognizable and would be stopped as many believe her to be Renly's murderer. Furthermore, the BwB's loose worship of the Lord of Light might actually make them want to side with Stannis. With no Starks currently in position to bring justice to the Boltons or Freys, I think Stannis will last at least long enough to take the Boltons down and at least threaten the Freys. However, I can certainly see the Northern Lords wanting to return to their lands once the Freys are dealt with. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the BwB doesn't join up with him at least temporarily to accomplish that task. After that, all bets are off.

Good point, but what if she rescues Sansa and then has to take her up North to be with Rickon. Then there is a possibility of them meeting. I think because she loved Renly, she might go after him no matter what.

[1234567]

I think GRRM owes us that much at least. I know he probably doesn't feel that way but ultimately I think he understands that most people don't like Stannis and find what he did to Renly kinda reprehensible.

I like Stannis. I think he is sort of heroic.

[MadMage]

Good point, but what if she rescues Sansa and then has to take her up North to be with Rickon. Then there is a possibility of them meeting. I think because she loved Renly, she might go after him no matter what.

I'm not denying she'd try to meet Stannis, but even the option you gave would not result in her getting to a position she can try anything against Stannis without quite a few people intervening.

Let us assume Brienne finds Sansa, why would she pry her away from the Vale? It's the safest place for her as the Eyrie is nigh impregnable, well-stocked and their men are still fresh and unbloodied except for skirmishes with the mountain clans. The only reason I can see moving her North is if Rickon hasn't been found and the Arya ruse has not been revealed to be a fraud. Thus, Brienne would try to expose Jeyne as a fake Arya and try to coerce the Northern lords to follow Sansa instead. Yet, Stannis could just as easily turn around and say: "Arya, Sansa, whatever. A Stark woman is a Stark woman. I'll allow her to claim her father's seat so long as she is a leal servant. Afterall, who came to the Wall's defense? Who freed some of her vassals' lands of the Ironborn? Who (presumably by that point) defeated Bolton and potentially the Freys by then?"

Only way I can see Brienne getting close enough to Stannis to get any measure of revenge is if Sansa plays nice with Stannis and brings the Vale's loyalty with her and Brienne is willing to bide her time until an opportunity arises.

[Ramez012]

Am I the only one her who doesn't really like Brienne? Don't get me wrong she's an interesting character but I found some of her chapters in AFFC to be extremely boring. Furthermore I hope Stannis doesn't die, he's a man of duty and honor. Besides he's the last Baratheon alive and I like Baratheons.

[Babeldygob]

Am I the only one her who doesn't really like Brienne? Don't get me wrong she's an interesting character but I found some of her chapters in AFFC to be extremely boring. Furthermore I hope Stannis doesn't die, he's a man of duty and honor. Besides he's the last Baratheon alive and I like Baratheons.

You're not the only one. She's kind of dim. She hasn't actually done anything yet. Sure, she's met some people. Had some conversations and walked around a little bit while discovering things that aren't really important, but apart from that, she hasn't done anything that would make me like her, except for falling in love with Jaime.

[Carn_Dum]

As for Stannis and I've yet to see any great overwhelming love or fans of his character.

That's because we Stannis fans know our King needs steel, not kisses...

[MadMage]

Well said Carn.

[Turgid furgison]

Stannis can't deal with women, and no one knows that brienne vowed to kill him besides stone heart. And cat vowed to let her kill him eventually, so she has to let her do it before hanging her. Stannis will see her approach and just see a soldier and she will kill him. No other stannis death is appropriate, because this was his one attempt at being underhanded not to mention his shadow is a kin slayer.

[LHX]

-Rob was kinslayer (killed Karstark)

-Dany just watched when his brothers was killed by his husband

-Jaime killed King

-Tyrion Killed his Father and planned to kill Carsei

- Euran hired kill of his father

Yes Stannis killed his brother, but before that he offered, his old position and he was ready make he his heir.