[TWOW Spoiler] Night's King - A Turn From Fire to Ice: The Story of Stannis Baratheon

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Oh please Stannis is just as bad as Roose Bolton is. He's just better at hiding it and has yet to be discovered. For all the atrocities Bolton has unleashed he's not a kinslayer and he's never claimed to be some righteous person who always delivers justice.

I hate both of em and want them to die by the end of the next novel. But if I have to choose I'd rather the Boltons suffer for what they did at the Red Wedding.

I still can't handle the fact that my beloved Robb is truly dead sometimes.....

[BoldAsYouPlease]

Indeed, Stannis is pretty much a straight villain as far as I am concerned. His main difference from Roose Bolton is that Bolton acted later and was exposed sooner. I know that many people think Melisandre acted on her own, and I guess that may well be technically true. But that in no way absolves Stannis from the responsibility for Renly's death or the way it happened

Stannis is the only contender for the throne who understands that he has a duty to protect the kingdoms of men against the threat of the Others. He's uprooted his family, his lords and soldiers from their southern bases of power and moved to an impoverished, frozen wasteland to defend Westeros. He's allowed the wildlings through the Wall, saving them from slaughter, and with their help he plans to restore and man every fortress along the Wall against the Others. He's shown more foresight and regard for the kingdom he proposes to rule than all of the others squabbling over the Iron Throne put together.

As for Renly, he had no claim to the throne while Stannis lived. He intended to conquer and kill Stannis in battle - or rather the Tyrells who had made Renly their sock-puppet and sought to rule through him did. Stannis struck first - that's all. He did nothing that was in any way worse than what Renly sought to do to him.

Stannis deserves better than the fate he's likely to get in the remaining books. And the nobility of Westeros - the Tyrells, the Lannisters, the Boltons, etc. - most certainly deserve the sort of justice Stannis would give them.

[Babeldygob]

Why can't his troops match Aegon's? Aegon is, at present, gravely outnumbered by the Tyrell forces alone, even if Dorne joins him. Stannis has just received infinite credit from the Iron Bank of Braavos - that ought to be able to hire him several sell sword companies of the size of the Golden Company, even if they're not as loyal or good.

I'd add that I find the OP just as dubious - how do you even make a deal with the Others?

Pretty much all sellsword companies in The Disputed Lands are hired by one or the other for the Battle of Meereen. With the ongoign war in Essos I very much doubt Stannis will be able to find any allies there.

About the deal with the Others. Who knows how... Craster obviously had some kind of deal with the Others until he ran out of sacrifices.

[jlk7e]

Pretty much all sellsword companies in The Disputed Lands are hired by one or the other for the Battle of Meereen. With the ongoign war in Essos I very much doubt Stannis will be able to find any allies there.

What is the basis for this claim? Dany has one sell-sword company, and the Yunkish and their allies have, what, six or seven at most? Do you think there are only 7 or 8 sellsword companies in Essos?

[Silent_Hero]

What is the basis for this claim? Dany has one sell-sword company, and the Yunkish and their allies have, what, six or seven at most? Do you think there are only 7 or 8 sellsword companies in Essos?

I assumed those companies were the best and largest Essos had to offer.

And Stannis is a better King then All the other pretenders COMBINED. It's a time of war,war is gritty and dark, so what if stannis killed renly,he made a strategic brilliant move and shattered Renly and his false claim while saving himself from a possible slaughter from renly. Basically Stannis struck first before Renly did,it's war.

And Roose Bolton rapes ppl, Stannis punishes Rapists.

[Babeldygob]

Have we heard about another sellsword company that isn't already hired or disbanded(the Brave Companions/Bloody Mummers)?

[The Last Reyne]

I am intrigued by this theory. I'm not sure I see him actually making a deal with the Others but if he were to fall to the Others in battle, be turned, and rise again as one of them and lead them. Now that I could see.

[Victaerys Ironfist]

Really interesting theory.

[Stark@heart]

Since ADWD I've pictured Stannis as the Night King come again but a whole lot worse this time because the Others are so active.

I think Stannis will die in battle and his body will be brought back to the Wall. Now, here's where things get interesting because of what's happened at the Wall - we have the apparent death of another Lord Commander, this time at the Wall, at the hands of his own men/ sworn brothers. Is it enough to break the magic in the Wall that holds the Others back? Maybe?

So, what it comes down to is who wrights Stannis. Does Mel give Stannis the Kiss or does she burn someone to awaken Stannis ( who could be seen as a stone/dead dragon ) and if she burns someone, who will it be? A baby that's thought to have Kings blood but is actually an abomination that was bred for the cold/Others or Jon, who has the blood of Northern Kings?

I think the Wildlings, under Val and Tormund will end up with possession of Jon's body after the melee his stabbing causes.

So the baby gets tossed into the flames and that causes all kinds of shit Mel doesn't expect like causing Stannis to rise, not in the Light of the Lord but with the Cold Blue Eyes of the Others.

[jlk7e]

Have we heard about another sellsword company that isn't already hired or disbanded(the Brave Companions/Bloody Mummers)?

Prior to Storm of Swords, had we heard of the Stormcrows or the Second Sons? Prior to Feast, had we heard of the Golden Company? Prior to Dance, had we heard of the Windblown or the Long Lances or the Company of the Cat? This isn't evidence of anything. Sellswords are the main military force in the Free Cities. Myr, Lys, and Tyrosh are about to go to war with one another. There ought to be a fair number of free companies hanging around the free cities hoping to get in on that action, at least.

[Babeldygob]

I am intrigued by this theory. I'm not sure I see him actually making a deal with the Others but if he were to fall to the Others in battle, be turned, and rise again as one of them and lead them. Now that I could see.

Interesting take. It would indeed make the transition easier. I like it.

Since ADWD I've pictured Stannis as the Night King come again but a whole lot worse this time because the Others are so active. I think Stannis will die in battle and his body will be brought back to the Wall. Now, here's where things get interesting because of what's happened at the Wall - we have the apparent death of another Lord Commander, this time at the Wall, at the hands of his own men/ sworn brothers. Is it enough to break the magic in the Wall that holds the Others back? Maybe? So, what it comes down to is who wrights Stannis. Does Mel give Stannis the Kiss or does she burn someone to awaken Stannis ( who could be seen as a stone/dead dragon ) and if she burns someone, who will it be? A baby that's thought to have Kings blood but is actually an abomination that was bred for the cold/Others or Jon, who has the blood of Northern Kings? I think the Wildlings, under Val and Tormund will end up with possession of Jon's body after the melee his stabbing causes. So the baby gets tossed into the flames and that causes all kinds of shit Mel doesn't expect like causing Stannis to rise, not in the Light of the Lord but with the Cold Blue Eyes of the Others.

I like it. Although I don't think Mel will give Stannis the Kiss. I think she'll pretty soon find out that Jon is actually AA(if there even is such a thing).

Prior to Storm of Swords, had we heard of the Stormcrows or the Second Sons? Prior to Feast, had we heard of the Golden Company? Prior to Dance, had we heard of the Windblown or the Long Lances or the Company of the Cat? This isn't evidence of anything. Sellswords are the main military force in the Free Cities. Myr, Lys, and Tyrosh are about to go to war with one another. There ought to be a fair number of free companies hanging around the free cities hoping to get in on that action, at least.

Ofcourse you are right, but it would seem weird to introduce ANOTHER sellsword company that would rise for Stannis. I'm pretty sure all notable sellsword companies are in use. I could see him making a company turn its cloak, but it seems stupid to just introduce another sellsword company we never heard of. Before the war in Essos it's only logical we never heard of any company because they weren't needed at the time, except for in the Disputed Lands. With the war raging we see sellsword companies being hired here and there. I don't think any notable company leader would just do nothing and not try to take a side with anyone in that war. He's losing money if he's not being hired.

[CrypticWeirwood]

And Roose Bolton rapes ppl, Stannis punishes Rapists.

This.

How people can equate a rapist with the person whom the Author Himself called the closest thing in the series to a real hero, I cannot even begin to start to understand!

[Freekshow614]

This.

How people can equate a rapist with the person whom the Author Himself called the closest thing in the series to a real hero, I cannot even begin to start to understand!

I agree whole-heartedly. When Stannis showed up north of the wall to smash Mance's party, my faith was renewed that maybe somebody, out of all the idiots playing at this game of thrones, has some idea of what it really means to rule. As has been said by Tyrion, Stannis, and I believe, a Stark or two, it is a duty. Not a privilege like mini Cersie and minier Cersie have been taught. Not a party like Robert seemed to think. But, a by god duty. All of the people of the realms well beings are your responsibility. Out of all the possible kings, Stannis is the only one that seams to me to have this figured out. He would rather not be king. But he will protect the realm of men, because it is his duty. Dany seams to be learning this as well. I am real interested to see who Dany ends up with in the end. That will be the decider I think. Because, let's be honest, no matter how honorable, or good of a king Stannis is, fire destroys everything it touches.

[Harland Flint]

what it comes down to is who wrights Stannis. Does Mel give Stannis the Kiss or does she burn someone to awaken Stannis ( who could be seen as a stone/dead dragon ) and if she burns someone, who will it be? A baby that's thought to have Kings blood but is actually an abomination that was bred for the cold/Others or Jon, who has the blood of Northern Kings? I think the Wildlings, under Val and Tormund will end up with possession of Jon's body after the melee his stabbing causes. So the baby gets tossed into the flames and that causes all kinds of shit Mel doesn't expect like causing Stannis to rise, not in the Light of the Lord but with the Cold Blue Eyes of the Others.

Or, does Mel burn Stannis to bring back Jon?

[The Wood of the Morning]

I like Stannis and I like this theory :thumbsup:

All hail the Night's King :bowdown:

[libmanj]

Hmm, interesting theory. There are a several times in the novels that Stannis' face is described as looking skeletal. I wondered if that was George foreshadowing him as the king of the dead.

[Synjin]

Since when does anyone have to be burned for someone to be brought back? Thoros wasn't burning someone everytime he tried to raise Beric Dondarrion.

[Babeldygob]

Or, does Mel burn Stannis to bring back Jon?

How would she burn Stannis? Even if she wanted to, she can't force him to die by fire.

[jlk7e]

This. How people can equate a rapist with the person whom the Author Himself called the closest thing in the series to a real hero, I cannot even begin to start to understand!

When did Martin say that Stannis is the closest thing the series has to a real hero? Because that seems crazy to me. I don't hate Stannis, and I don't think he's a villain (as Roose obviously is). He's an interesting character towards whom I have very ambivalent feelings. But he murdered his brother and was strongly considering murdering his nephew. He's also a humorless prig and a terrible politician. The fact that he's the only one who recognizes the threat of the Others is a great irony of the series, not an indication that Stannis is the hero of the story.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

It's a well tought out theory, but too ridiculous to take seriously. The Night's King story is just an old fairy tale.

Of course GRRM can do whatever he wants with his tale and make it as ridiculous as he wants to, but I think he's too good of a writer to go down such a silly road.