Jump to content

[TWOW Spoiler] Night's King - A Turn From Fire to Ice: The Story of Stannis Baratheon


Babeldygob

Recommended Posts

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

It is no coincidence that Stannis will be leading the Battle of Ice while Daenerys and co fight the Battle of Fire. Both events will be important milestones in lead each character to their impending destinies.

Stannis is trying to navigate and survive a wintery world. If successful, he will have a significant headstart over competitors. Additionally, he may learn more about the ancient magical forces that operate in the North and at the Wall especially.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the story goes how the rats were eating each other while the Rat King was eating his young was it? I think it means more that as soon as Walder Frey dies, all the other Freys are going to be killing each other to fight for the lordship. It's already happening.

From the Wiki:

According to legend, the man who would later be known as the Rat Cook was a simple cook at the Nightfort. He became infamous when he served an Andal King a pie that was made of bacon and, unknown to the King, the King's own son. The Cook killed the King's son, a Prince, in revenge for a wrong the King supposedly did to him. The King was unaware of this however as he ate and praised the taste and asked for a second piece. The gods, angry because the cook had slain a guest beneath his roof, cursed the cook and transformed him into a massive rat who was doomed to be unable to eat anything but his own young.

According to the story, he is an enormous white rat and all the other rats that inhabit the Nightfort are his descendants.[1]

Definite doom for the Freys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From the Wiki:

According to legend, the man who would later be known as the Rat Cook was a simple cook at the Nightfort. He became infamous when he served an Andal King a pie that was made of bacon and, unknown to the King, the King's own son. The Cook killed the King's son, a Prince, in revenge for a wrong the King supposedly did to him. The King was unaware of this however as he ate and praised the taste and asked for a second piece. The gods, angry because the cook had slain a guest beneath his roof, cursed the cook and transformed him into a massive rat who was doomed to be unable to eat anything but his own young.

According to the story, he is an enormous white rat and all the other rats that inhabit the Nightfort are his descendants.[1]

Definite doom for the Freys.

Ah thanks. Yeah, Freys are toast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

You have brought forward some very interesting points and have obviously researched stannis and his ways very closest. I'm curious to see if it turns out at all like you think it may. I can't say I would be dissapointed if it did really cool theories man

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I really like this theory. At first it sounded ridiculous to me, but unlike many of the other ridiculous theories here, this one really makes sense. And the more i think about it, the more i expect it to happen, although i am still not sure about the details.


There is something that you haven't mentioned that i think support your theory and makes me believe in it even more:


It would fit perfectly to GRRMs style of telling stories. Why? Well i always thought that it would kind of make sense if stannis joined dany at some point after she lands in westeros. Stannis is a man of duty and dany is the rightful queen. Of course stannis might see this in a different way, but IF he would recognize her claim, then it would be his duty to support her. It seems like a win-win situation here: dany gets native military support, a strong commander and her claim becomes even stronger when a contender for the thrones steps back from his own (also very good) claim. for stannis it would provide an exit strategy from his war. and we know that he doesn't really want to be a king, but feels like he has to become a king as it is his right and therefore his duty. he also was pissed off when robert denied him storms end. well, dany could pardon him and make him lord of the stormlands. he has an undisputed claim for this title at least. so both could get what the want and probably many readers would like to see something like this happen. They would have a good chance of winning the civil war in westeros and could then concentrate on fighting the others.


Everything seems to fit perfectly, right? Well, and this is where GRRMs writing style comes in. We previously had similar situations, i.e. when robb sent theon to the iron islands to seek an alliance. this alliance seemed like a rational choice for both partys and chances of robb winning the war, as well as the lannisters being defeated woulld rise significantly (and that was basically what most readers wanted). But then Martin destroyed this hope by letting balon reject the offer and theon betray robb. and this was a key to the downfall of the starks (and ultimately leads to the red wedding). one thing that made their downfall so tragic was that we all saw how it could have gone out otherwise.


similar things happened at different times during the books. what martin does is that he offers an oppotunity that would be favored by most readers (or those who hope for a happy end) only to reject it and therefore making later events more tragic.


i think this could be another occasion where something like that happens, but as the stakes are higher now (with the threat of the others growing) the results might be even more tragic.



and there is something else i'd like to mention: we have seen characters who seemed to be "evil" become "good" (or at least kind of), as it was the case with jaimie. of course martin has repeated several times that there are no good and evil characters, but rather more there is good and evil in all characters, so it would be better to say that there are protagonists and antagonists. stannis isn't exactly a good person, but he is a protagonist, many readers root for him, at least for now where he s fighting boltons and freys who are antagonist ("evil characters"). i could imagine that martin now does the same as with jamie, only ths time it's the other way around. martin has also talked about characters havin inner conflicts within themselves, so why shouldn't the evil side win this fight (for stannis heart)? here again it would add more tragedy as we know stannis isn't a evil person, but rather mislead one who makes a really bad and wrong decision. if stannis wins the battle for winterfell it would seem as he would just rise again, but this would also be a typical point for martin to start a characters downfall.


it also would serve the overall story in an important way: we would finally get an antagonist for the endgame (being the war with the others). this i think would be a much better story than a war against a unknown dark force. there is a reason why every good story has antagonist, it makes it more interesting. and btw i do not see any character who could pose as a better main-antagonist. of course we have more typcal villains like the boltons or cersei, but they are antagonists in smaller (though still big and important) story-arcs, and they are a bit to stereotypical villains (it would just be bad people who become even more evil). i just expect something more brilliant from GRRM, and a tragic hero who becomes a villain would be just that. the moment stannis turns to the others would also be a WTF-effect for any reader on an epic level (possibly even more than the red wedding and the death of ned stark), if martin does it the right way (which he definitely s capable of). just imagine something like stannis offering his daughter as a sacrifice to the others...i guess whatever your reaction to the red wedding was, this would be even more intense. i can already see people scream at their books and post "i hate you george"-comments all over the internet! if i've learned one thing about GRRMs style of storytelling then it is that he doesn't give the readers what they want at that moment, but something that is more exciting and unexpected.



so what i want to say s that the theory makes sense when it comes to good writing/storytelling and with an author as good as martin is you should always consider this when you talk about a theory. (i have read theories that are quite possible when you only look at informations we get from the books, but i would dismiss them simply because they would be bad stories to tell).



if i had to guess the events would be some like this:



- stannis defeats the bolton-frey alliance


- the northern lords will not march south, but promise to do when spring returns


- stannis does not have the patience and feels like an exiled king, similar to Viserys or Jalabhar Xho who never had a real chance of getting back their kingdoms. of course his fate is even worse as he sits at the wall freezing off his ass. if the northerners insist of having their own king and be an independent kingdom, it might make it even worse, because stannis would actually in exile if he allows it (and he might have no choice there as the northerners are stronger than him). and if that happens they would be traitors in his eyes.


- melisandre will most likely lose faith in stannis and turn towards jon, so stannis realizes he isn't azor ahai and feels betrayed, probably rejecting the faith of R'hllor (making it more likely to turn to the opposite side)


- he makes himself LC of the NW to strengthen his troops, but the NW are very few and most likely not all will follow him


- having lost most of his manpower and melisandres magic powers he will seek a way to punish all who "betrayed" (as he feels it) him and is left with no other option than to ally with the others, so that he can punish his enemies, as LC he can let the others pass the secret gate which is why they need him and possibly they need him for something else, to be honest: we do not know how strong the other actually are and what they are capable of)


- finally dany arrives in westeros and fights stannis and the others



don't forget that these events would be stretched over two books, it won't be a twist that comes out of nowhere, GRRM has enough time to make decisions seem quite reasonable and credible. it may only sound ridiculous if you put it in a very short form like did (just try to explain danys storyline so far in a few sentences and it will sound ridiculous to anyone who hasn't read the books).



oh, and i left out the fate of other characters here on purpose as it would be too much speculation. this are just the outlines of the story i would imagine IF this theory becomes true.


some things could go different, but with a similar ending. i.e. stannis could somehow die and be resurrected by melisandre. we know that this affects the personality of the resurrected and stannis "soul" is already weakend by the shadow assassin stuff, so he might come back in a similar fashion cat did and is only driven by revenge, but thats very much speculation here, just wanted to say that there are still many possible ways the story could go.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

...Stannis is a man of duty and dany is the rightful queen. Of course stannis might see this in a different way, but IF he would recognize her claim, then it would be his duty to support her. It seems like a win-win situation here: dany gets native military support, a strong commander and her claim becomes even stronger when a contender for the thrones steps back from his own (also very good) claim. ...

Kind of off topic but still important.... Dany is not the rightful Queen, especially not in Stannis' mind. He has said many times that the Throne is his by rights. He would never support her claim. And on Dany's side, in her present mindset she would never ever take the "Usurper"'s brother as an ally. She would toast him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kind of off topic but still important.... Dany is not the rightful Queen, especially not in Stannis' mind. He has said many times that the Throne is his by rights. He would never support her claim. And on Dany's side, in her present mindset she would never ever take the "Usurper"'s brother as an ally. She would toast him.

well, the term rightful is problematic here. first of all: westeros seems to have no written law as we have today. so there is no constitution that can tell you who is the rightful ruler. but in westerosi tradition titles are inherited or can be taken or given by a member of the nobility that stands higher in the hierachy. as the king stands on top there is nobody who could "legally" take his title away. the rebels had no legitimation but military power. there was a reason why robert was given the throne (and not ned or jon arryn): house baratheon was seen as the closest relatives to the targaryens. so we see at least some kind of acknowledgement to this tradition. if house targaryens was extinct this would probably the right way. but it isn't and therefore a member of the house would be the "rightful" heir. the exiled members of the house where treated the same as the dead ones: they lost their claim. but when dany returns this claim could be seen as "right". it s a matter of interpretation of the traditions. of course you coud also argue that the targs theirselves took the throne by force, so it seems like miltary power is actually a legitimation. but then it would make no sense why the rebels ever worried about robert having some kind of claim as a baratheon. the reason probably is that the targs created the iron throne and the title "king of the seven kingdoms" and therefore tradition that determines the line of succession started with them.

it s a matter of discussion but think you all know what i mean when i say that she is the rightful queen.

as for stannis point of view:

he surely doesn't see her as the rightful heir now. if he would he coud have sent his fleet to take her home and then fight for her. but that does not mean he couldn't be convinced. if he would be then he also would see it as his duty to follow her. and i would be interested how stannis would explain to dany that his claim (as an usurpers brother) is better than hers. i think he would have problems to answer that. also remember that stannis never was comfortable with the rebellion in the first place, most likely because it goes against his view on duty and honour.

and for dany:

stannis only followed his brother who was also his liege lord, so he acted according to tradition (law). he did not kill any of her family members and i am sure she will see that many things about the rebellion and the mad king are not like she was told and might even understand the reasons for the rebellion (especially now where she is an usurper herself). i definitely see reasons for her to pardon him.

but as i said: this, i think, is only a possible solution presented for the reader and will not actually happen. you could have argued that the greyjoys never would side with the starks, but nonetheless most readers (i guess) saw an alliance as a good possibility when robb suggested it.

the stubborness of stannis or dany might well be the reason for it not to happen, but thats not the point here. what is important is that the possibility exists for the reader, thus making the fate of stannis more tragic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

“There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man." - Varys

I'm just starting my Stannis reread, basically I'm reading every chapter that involves Stannis physically.

I want to present a theory that has probably been discussed a few times, but with the Theon chapter I want to go deeper into it.

Stannis started out his journey to the Iron Throne in Dragonstone, the former seat of House Targaryen, much on that island is about Fire and Dragons. He had Melisandre as a Thrall of Fire basically, not really buying into the whole Lord of Light thing, rather using it as a tool for his campaign. He recognizes that Melisandre has (fire)power and uses it for his own goals several times.

Later on, he goes North to help the Wall against the wildlings and establishes his seat in the Nightfort, which is the former seat of the Night's King, a lot of things here have to do with Ice and Coldness. Whereas Dragonstone was a beautiful island with a beautiful carved out castle, he now has a broken down castle, with nothing much going for it except its history.

Dragonstone(Fire) ---> The Nightfort(Ice)

Stannis has a pretty hard time on his campaign. The first thing he does is killing his brother, using Dark Forces powered by Fire. He recognizes the power of fire a lot and uses it to see his future through Melisandre.

After that he loses the battle of the Blackwater because of Wildfire and flees. He returns to Dragonstone and because of this defeat he almost turns to the bad side by planning to burn Edric Storm for power. Davos prevents him from doing that and informs Stannis of the real threat.

Here we see how Stannis, driven by hopelessness, does not refrain from doing bad things for the greater good. We see how for him the end justifies the means if other options run out.

He then goes North to fight the real problem, but Stannis is only convinced because he sees it as a tool to make the realm follow him in order to get the Iron Throne. Despite his victory, Jon Snow is unwilling to let him have the wildlings and become a Stark to help him.

Despite this effort Stannis makes to help the realm, the realm still doesn't recognize him as a true king. This is something he very much despises. He gets more and more driven by his hate for the realm and everyone in it who doesn't recognize him.

When Stannis departs from the Nightfort to get back Deepwood Motte, he basically starts his transition from Fire to Ice. He uses the forces of fire less and less now that Melisandre isn't with him and starts hating on the snows. He recognizes that the cold and the North are powerful things and he has a hard time overcoming them.

Again despite his effort freeing Deepwood Motte from Asha Greyjoy, no Northern Lords except for Alysane openly declare for him. They still don't want to bend the knee even though he's proven again and again that he can handle the realm and that he'd be a good King.

In the Theon chapter, we see Asha making the request of offering Theon to the Old Gods at the Hearttree. As we see in Bran's adventures, offering blood to the Hearttree seems to have been a big thing in the olden days. We also see that Stannis has a plan to use his environment(Ice) to somehow trap his enemies in the battle.

In this chapter we also see that even though Stannis is doing what's good for the North, he learns of an attempt of a Northern Lord trying to turn his cloak. Again he is rewarded with treason and hate for his efforts.

Power of R'hlorr(Fire) ---> Power of the Old Gods(Ice)

Now here's the theory I have:

Stannis will offer Theon to the Hearttree. Something will happen that convinces Stannis of the power of Ice and he will start using that rather than Fire to help him on his campaign. He wins the battle and solves the North's problem with the Boltons.

Now what happens next? If he establishes the North and brings back peace, what will they do? Will they follow him to the South to take back what is rightfully his, now that Winter has come? I think not, I think they will tell Stannis to wait until the Winter is out. They will let him have the Nightfort and let him be to do whatever he wants, because he saved the North basically. They will swear they're his, but they won't do anything for him. There is even a big chance Manderly will crown Rickon King in The North once he gets his hands on him. Another treason. Justin Massey's resolve seems weak and he might even betray Stannis. We saw with Dareon what Braavos might do to you. The gold of the Iron Bank will do Stannis no good if he can't find any sellsword company anymore.

Basically, Stannis is again fucked and has too few forces to do anything. He will sit at the Nightfort and think of ways to help him get The Iron Throne and punish those who defied him and keep defying him. He will try to help out against the Others if they finally show up and he will see their power(Ice).

Now something clicked when I read the chapter where Stannis meets his brother. Stannis' sense of justice dictates that anyone who doesn't bend the knee will be destroyed.

And Stannis will do exactly that. He will bring justice down upon the realm. At some point he will be so bitter, he will break before he bends. Whether this means he should actually die or just be overturned by the events that come to pass, I don't know. After what happened at the Wall he might not have the patience for another choosing, if there even is one. I could see him making himself Lord Commander, as well as King. He might somehow make a pact with the Others, convinced of their power. It might be that all The Others need to start their rampage on humanity is a leader. He will LEAD them down upon the realm, destroying ANYONE who denies him, unwilling to bend the knee. He will be the Night's King come again and lead the attack from The Others upon a treasonous realm. He will bring JUSTICE to those who deserve it. He will use the power of ICE to destroy those who defied him. The treason has gone on for too long and it is time for true justice. He would have finally found the army he needs and has always wanted, devoted to him, without question, without doubt, carrying out his every order, unyielding like he himself is.

Things from the books that support this theory:

There's possible foreshadowing of this in the fact that Shireen has greyscale and the Wildlings are all like WTF THIS KID CARRIES A CURSE. It might be foreshadowing in how Stannis might father other children to an 'Ice woman' that will be 'terrible abominations' like Old Nan says it.

Referring to a dream that Dany had in Storm of Swords:

This sequence is full of parallels between the war Robert fought and the war Dany is about to fight.

Rhaegar[Dany] on his horse[her dragon] fights Robert[stannis] Baratheon and their army of rebels[Others] at the Trident.

Remember that the Usurper doesn't necessarilly indicate Robert. If Dany returns to Westeros, she will see Stannis and his army as The Usurper.

In the House of the undying Dany sees:

This obviously refers to Stannis. I think it is interesting though that the only things that distinguish him are the Red Sword(made by Melisandre), the Blue Eyes(parallel with the Others) and no shadow(Light is needed for shadow). In the darkness, in the night, Night's King Stannis would have a red sword, blue eyes and no shadow.

Not completely in line with my theory but there are several parallels between Melisandre and the Ice Queen of the Night's King another member has already remarked upon;

Appearance:

Melisandre - "Her eyes were red, but her skin was smooth and white ... pale as cream."

Night's King Queen - "...skin as white as the Moon and eye like blue stars."

Skin temperature:

Melisandre - "Jon could feel her heat, even through his wool and boiled leather..."

Night's King Queen - "...her skin was cold as ice..."

Soul Draining Coitus:

Melisandre - "...the king's fires burn so low i dare not draw off any more to make another son."

Night's King Queen - "...when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul..."

Sacrificing:

Melisandre - "Give me the boy for R'hllor."

Night's King Queen - "...he had been sacrificing to the Others..."

The only difference I notice is the flip between Hot/Cold - Red/Blue - Fire/Ice. Both want to sacrifice people. Both drain the soul from people when they have sex. Stannis might reunite with Melisandre when he goes back to The Wall or he might not, but the parallels are striking and maybe Melisandre takes a turn to the Ice too, who knows? Maybe Melisandre and the Night's King Queen are ONE AND THE SAME. People have already remarked upon how she seems to be using a glamour for herself and how she doesn't need food nor sleep.

This is when Davos talks to Stannis about burning Edric Storm and what his kingship might cost him. It seems to me foreshadowing to a point where Stannis might actually get burned and may rise again as something darker, something broken. You could discuss that this is about Viserys, but the crown Viserys got, was much different from a crown of flames, which is very resemblant to Stannis' crown. It might foreshadow how Fire is going to consume Stannis. He would then rise again as Ice.

In Sam's chapter where Aemon dies on the ship, he has one of his last conversations with Sam about Azor Ahai/PtwP and he says:

We also learn from Bran's adventures that there's a gate through The Wall at the Nightfort.

This makes it more difficult for my theory if Stannis plans to use it, but he could become Lord Commander instead of Jon. He has said before that he would appoint one if it took too long. Will he have patience for the voting? Especially now that Black Brothers have killed Jon he might think it's necessary that he takes over before they all become corrupt and treasonous. Maybe he will use the Night's Watch for his own purposes, this would align with the Night's King theory. By doing this, the Night's Watch falls or at least a key point to their existence. The fact they can't take part in squabbles between Houses. Stannis has already tried to convince Jon to fight for him. If he becomes LC, what would stop him from doing just that?

It would be quite ironical to see the Night's Watch align with the Others. The Wall would stand strong no more and Stannis could use the gate. This is all far out there, but knowing GRRM...

So, what do you think? There may be more hints to this than I spelled out here. I feel the Night's King HAS TO come again. There are so much dark stories about it and now that Stannis sits at the Nightfort I don't think anyone else is going to own that castle.

Well thought out theory OP!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

as for stannis point of view:

he surely doesn't see her as the rightful heir now. if he would he coud have sent his fleet to take her home and then fight for her. but that does not mean he couldn't be convinced. if he would be then he also would see it as his duty to follow her. and i would be interested how stannis would explain to dany that his claim (as an usurpers brother) is better than hers. i think he would have problems to answer that. also remember that stannis never was comfortable with the rebellion in the first place, most likely because it goes against his view on duty and honour.

That would be a really funny scene, Stannis standing there grinding his teeth trying to think of how his claim was better then Dany's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

"The only difference I notice is the flip between Hot/Cold - Red/Blue"




It is clear that Melisandre is using a glamor on herself as she is far older than she looks.



GRRM commissioned a figurine to make the Red Priestess a priestess of ice, complete with an ice flame.



Melisande of Asshai. In the book series she's the red woman, a witch of fire and light, but George saw this color scheme I used on a drow sorceress and thought it would be an interesting variation for the miniature.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems to me foreshadowing to a point where Stannis might actually get burned and may rise again as something darker, something broken. You could discuss that this is about Viserys, but the crown Viserys got, was much different from a crown of flames, which is very resemblant to Stannis' crown. It might foreshadow how Fire is going to consume Stannis. He would then rise again as Ice.

This is very interesting - a theory I haven't heard so far.

So, what it comes down to is who wrights Stannis. Does Mel give Stannis the Kiss or does she burn someone to awaken Stannis ( who could be seen as a stone/dead dragon ) and if she burns someone, who will it be? A baby that's thought to have Kings blood but is actually an abomination that was bred for the cold/Others or Jon, who has the blood of Northern Kings?

OMG! And because Stannis is now a wight, he won't care that his daughter was sacrificed for him! Mind Blown! :eek: This would be such karmic retribution for his decision to kill Edric. Whoa. I love this site!

ETA:

MMMmm, to fit the prophesies I think Stannis would eventually become the victor and actually be seated on the Iron Throne when Daenerys arrives in Westeros. Dany would then discredit Stannis' claim to be AA, and Aegon would come forward. Stannis and Melisandre retreat to the Night Fort and concoct the plan to raise the dragon using king's blood, and I love the Shireen angle on this. Meanwhile Dany discovers and exposes that Aegon is not an heir to the Iron Throne. Then we have the great stone beast breathing shadow (Mel's handiwork, for sure) fire, where Dany manages to expose it for some kind of magicky lie. In the end I certainly see a brooding Stannis and Melisandre becoming the new Night's King at the Night Fort.

This is really interest as well although I don't see Stannis leaving the throne of his own free will. He'd need to be dragged away in a body bag. Perhaps he is about to ascend the throne when Dany and Aegon come forward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Stannis "will break before he bends" line occurs too frequently for me to think that Stannis will really break. It's one of those predictions that is just asking to be shown false. It's like the frequent insistence that the Eyrie is unassailable, which tells us that it's more likely than not that before the end of ASoIaF, the Eyrie to be taken by an invading force.



I think that Stannis will recognize the power of ice by the Weirwood at Theon's scheduled execution, and that will be yet another example of how he bends rather than breaks.



The reason Stannis is more likely than the other kings to win is that he is willing to fight for other people's causes. Granted, he has done this because he has been following the advice of shrewd advisors (Davos and Jon Snow), but it's a far cry from Tywin's view that he needn't defend the realm from the threats beyond the wall because he wants those threats to weaken the North. Try to imagine an advisor who could talk Tywin out of that position.



Stannis is the King who saved the Night's Watch. Soon, he is likely to be the King who went to battle to rescue Ned's girl. Soon, he is likely to be the King who saved the North from Ramsey and Roose Bolton. As Varys said, power resides where people believe it resides, and people are more likely believe it will reside in Stannis because he solves the problems of the realm while everyone else merely bickers over their privileges and calculates the boundaries of their estates.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I have read ur theory landed knight its off the charts by far one of the best theories I have seen well done.i expect to see more of ur thoughts ..if stannis becomes a champion king of white walkers that would make for some good reading.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I don't feel that The Others follow anyone. I think they have a purpose, and I don't think they are 'followers.' We already see how those north of The Wall don't bend the knee (Wildlings), and I definitely don't see The Others doing it. Stannis will not lead The Others.



Only my opinion however. Although I've read the entire series thus far, I'm surprisingly unknowledgeable on the Night's King. Although I don't feel this excludes me from offering my opinion.



I can however see the OPs point of view regarding Stannis turning to The Others in the end. He won't be leading them, following maybe?


Link to comment
Share on other sites

The way I see it, Stannis was broken before meeting Renly already. His actions have been pretty desperate at least since that time. Were he a fully functional human being he would never have resorted to those shameful kinslaying tactics.

It was Melisandre that killed Renly. Stannis didn't know that she killed him till after the deed was done and even if he did know what was happening at the time, Stannis was perfectly in his right given the fact that Renly was a traitor with absolutely no claim to the throne.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...